Refused letter of tax residence as they have no record of my paying taxes. What do?

[BrokeBroker]

But if you've no Irish income then you're not liable to pay tax here, so what interest have you in a double tax agreement?

If I'm not a tax resident, then I'm not liable to pay tax.

Does that mean I wouldn't necessarily have to declare DIRT on a Raisin account?

 

[T McGibney]

If I'm not a tax resident, then I'm not liable to pay tax.

That's not how it works.

If you're non-resident, you nevertheless are liable to pay Irish tax on Irish source income.

 

[BrokeBroker]

That's not how it works.

If you're non-resident, you nevertheless are liable to pay Irish tax on Irish source income.

I mean specific to DIRT on a Raisin account?

 

[ClubMan]

I mean specific to DIRT on a Raisin account?

Did you read my previous post?

 

[BrokeBroker]

Did you read my previous post?

Yes it made an allusion to, "probably should", and showed how to do it.

But my question was, if I'm not a tax resident or have no such status, am I in actual fact OBLIGED to do so.

 

[ClubMan]

Yes it made an allusion to, "probably should", and showed how to do it.

But my question was, if I'm not a tax resident or have no such status, am I in actual fact OBLIGED to do so.

Sigh... your original post was asking how to get a letter of tax residence. Subsequently you asked how to become tax resident. My suggestion (file your deposit interest income via myAccount) is a concrete step in that direction. But, yet again, you seem determined to refuse to take on board useful advice posted here. In which case, why post these questions here in the first place? I give up...

 

[BrokeBroker]

Sigh... your original post was asking how to get a letter of tax residence. Subsequently you asked how to become tax resident. My suggestion (file your deposit interest income via myAccount) is a concrete step in that direction. But, yet again, you seem determined to refuse to take on board useful advice posted here. In which case, why post these questions here in the first place? I give up...

Woah woah woah, I appreciate your responses certainly, but let's not put the cart before the horse.

Currently, the only deposit income I have, is what was in Irish accounts until now.
DIRT is already subtracted from this.

So, additionally bearing in mind I've never filed a tax return in Ireland (though have paid taxes many moons ago);

The situation is such that, I can actually file DIRT that's already been paid/taken from Irish accounts, as a means to establish tax resident status?

Just once again, thank you everyone for the input, but as you may have guessed, I'm an "attention to detail" type.

And I ask this question, or rather wish to clarify it, because it seems so completely bizarre that a national government agency would operate under these laughable terms.

 

[Galwayman1ie]

I was trying to get a letter of tax residence to avail of the double tax agreement between Ireland and Latvia, therefore open a deposit interest account through Raisin.ie

However, contacting revenue they claim they have no record of my paying taxes.

See I have worked in Ireland, but only part time at a much younger age, and just recently returned from years overseas where I lived since graduating college.

What can I do in this situation?

Seems to be a couple of issues here. The double tax treaty and the certificate of tax residence.

if you want to use the double tax treaty between Ireland and Latvia, this implies that you are resident in 1 country and have paid tax in the other country too. So, you will want to claim a deduction on say your Latvian tax return, for any Irish tax paid. So, then you avoid double taxation In both countries.

in terms of Revenue proving your Irish tax residency, they can never 100% confirm a persons residency for sure. Most people are fairly straightforward- they pay PAYE, run a business here, submit Irish tax returns etc., so high likelihood they meet the residency threshold of >183 days living in Ireland (280 over 2 years). Though, it’s always possible they might have travelled a lot in a year and breached residency. Not sure how Revenue could ever evidence you’re resident - they have no proof of it in terms of stay, paying recent taxes and you don’t really have any income, so why does it matter from a tax point of view.

 

[Gordon Gekko]

My eyes are burning after reading this thread. Why are you trying to demonstrate Irish residence? If it’s to get paid interest gross on an overseas Raisin account and you’re non-Irish domiciled, the Limitation of Benefits provisions of the Treaty may deny you Treaty benefits and render this whole excrement soup a waste of time. Basically, in layman’s terms, you can’t avail of Treaty benefits if you’re not paying tax in your country of residence.

 

[BrokeBroker]

My eyes are burning after reading this thread. Why are you trying to demonstrate Irish residence? If it’s to get paid interest gross on an overseas Raisin account and you’re non-Irish domiciled, the Limitation of Benefits provisions of the Treaty may deny you Treaty benefits and render this whole excrement soup a waste of time. Basically, in layman’s terms, you can’t avail of Treaty benefits if you’re not paying tax in your country of residence.

1st - yes, I'm trying to demonstrate Irish residence so I don't have to pay 20% withholding tax in Latvia, in addition to 33% DIRT here (40% if I'm late filing the return according to revenue).

2nd - "paying tax", I assume refers to PAYE tax? Not DIRT being automatically taken from savings/deposit accounts in Ireland. Based on what you've outlined, revenue probably wouldn't acknowledging filing an unnecessary tax return (as the DIRT is automatically taken), on an Irish savings account, cause I could just as easily be living overseas whilst maintain said accounts.

Would anyone agree?

3rd - we return to the issue of Irish revenue's position on offsetting withholding tax in Latvia, against their DIRT rates; will they do this? Based on reading through examination of this in this forum - revenue themselves don't even seem to know....?
i.e. if I pay 20% withholding tax in Latvia, without submitting a letter of residence, would I only be liable for 13% here, or would revenue simply charge 33%?

.........

I don't get this "eyes are burning" and "verbal soup" comments - these are all very valid questions but, it just appears we're collectively grasping at straws in trying to determine answers........ then getting offended when those answers are (correctly) scrutinized.

 

[BrokeBroker]

Seems to be a couple of issues here. The double tax treaty and the certificate of tax residence.

if you want to use the double tax treaty between Ireland and Latvia, this implies that you are resident in 1 country and have paid tax in the other country too. So, you will want to claim a deduction on say your Latvian tax return, for any Irish tax paid. So, then you avoid double taxation In both countries.

Yes, that's as I understand it.

in terms of Revenue proving your Irish tax residency, they can never 100% confirm a persons residency for sure. Most people are fairly straightforward- they pay PAYE, run a business here, submit Irish tax returns etc., so high likelihood they meet the residency threshold of >183 days living in Ireland (280 over 2 years). Though, it’s always possible they might have travelled a lot in a year and breached residency. Not sure how Revenue could ever evidence you’re resident - they have no proof of it in terms of stay, paying recent taxes and you don’t really have any income, so why does it matter from a tax point of view.

I mean, to verify residence, could I not submit other payments like, I dunno, utility bills or something?

Rent payments?

I'd hardly be paying them if I were overseas?

 

[BrokeBroker]

And lastly, say I simply go the easy route and opt to use a Raisin account which doesn't incorporate withholding tax (not ideal as I can't avail of the best interest rates but, C'est La Vie).

And then I file my deposit interest tax return.

Bearing in mind this is from someone who has never filed a tax return in Ireland before (may well be due back taxes from jobs worked prior to 2008 when I skipped the country);

Basically, NOT being a tax resident, having such status, but all of a sudden filing a deposit interest tax return - revenue won't raise eyebrows and start looking at me for the wrong reasons? (who knows what they might be, but I understand they have to be very aware of unusual looking activity).

 

[ClubMan]

1st - yes, I'm trying to demonstrate Irish residence so I don't have to pay 20% withholding tax in Latvia, in addition to 33% DIRT here (40% if I'm late filing the return according to revenue).

So why don't you file a return of DIRT tax as I suggested several times?

2nd - "paying tax", I assume refers to PAYE tax? Not DIRT being automatically taken from savings/deposit accounts in Ireland.
Would anyone agree?

I wouldn't.
DIRT is Deposit Interest Retention Tax.
So DIRT paid/retained at source is a tax paid by the interest bearing account holder.

 

[BrokeBroker]

So why don't you file a return of DIRT tax as I suggested several times?

The reason I questioned this was because, I mean...... the tax is taken already.

Filing a tax return on tax already taken?

lol

Doesn't that seem like doing the job twice over?
Will revenue even recognize that as a legitimate tax return?

I wouldn't.
DIRT is Deposit Interest Retention Tax.
So DIRT paid/retained at source is a tax paid by the interest bearing account holder.

Yes but, it's already taken.

So would it not be unusual in the eyes of revenue to file a tax return on tax they've already taken?

 

[ClubMan]

The reason I questioned this was become, I mean...... the tax is taken already.

Filing a tax return on tax already taken? Lol.

Yes. Lol.

Who is charged DIRT?

Deposit Interest Retention Tax is deducted from the interest paid on all deposit accounts held by Irish-resident individuals.

www.revenue.ie

Interest from accounts in other European Union (EU) Member States and from non-EU countries​

If you receive interest from an account in another EU Member State, you must pay the current DIRT rate on the interest income. You must include the details of this on your annual tax return. The income will be subject to a higher rate of 40% tax if it is not returned on time.

 

[ClubMan]

I don't get this "eyes are burning" and "verbal soup" comments -

I do.
Because you're making a meal of this and ignoring useful advice/feedback from posters instead of actually trying to resolve the issue raised by the original posts/questions.

 

[BrokeBroker]

Yes. Lol.

Who is charged DIRT?

Deposit Interest Retention Tax is deducted from the interest paid on all deposit accounts held by Irish-resident individuals.

www.revenue.ie

Okay, perhaps I see where the confusion is arising.

I don't have any overseas/Raisin accounts at the moment.

I have only every in my life paid DIRT to Irish revenue from an Irish account, so it was taken automatically.

Again, I have no deposit interest coming in from a non-Irish account currently - and I don't think I can file a tax return on an Irish account that revenue have already and automatically deducted DIRT from.

 

[ClubMan]

Okay, perhaps I see where the confusion is arising.

I don't have any overseas/Raisin accounts at the moment.

I have only every in my life paid DIRT to Irish revenue from an Irish account, so it was taken automatically.

Again, I have no deposit interest coming in from a non-Irish account currently - and I don't think I can file a tax return on an Irish account that revenue have already and automatically deducted DIRT from.

How do you declare DIRT?

How do customers submit Deposit Interest Retention Tax on their tax returns

www.revenue.ie

How do you declare DIRT?

You must include any deposit interest you received in your Income Tax Return. You need to enter the total interest payment before the deduction of DIRT.

The type of return you must complete depends on whether you are registered for self-assessment or are a Pay As You Earn (PAYE) worker.

 

[BrokeBroker]

I was just checking my revenue dot ie account for "form 11".

I can't actually find it.

i.e. it's not giving me the option to submit a form 11 as I'm not a tax resident (presumably).

At least as per the screen shots on revenue, an option to submit form 11 should be present, but in my case it's not.

........

Just out of curiosity, those who are in receipt of state payments and are exempt from tax on said payments, how do they ever register as tax residents? (or do they?)

I'm going over and above in attempt to file a tax return on a meagre amount of money whilst basically living the student life (breadline status).

 

[ClubMan]

I was just checking my revenue dot ie account for "form 11".

I can't actually find it.

"Form 11" means self-assessment via ROS.
Non self-assessed PAYE individuals use myAccount ("Form 12").
Two different systems and ways of filing returns.

Just out of curiosity, those who are in receipt of state payments and are exempt from tax on said payments, how do they ever register as tax residents? (or do they?)

Most welfare payments are assessible for income tax.

I'm going over and above in attempt to file a tax return on a meagre amount of money whilst basically living the student life (breadline status).

I still don't understand why you don't try what I suggested several times - file a myAccount "Form 12" return with details of your deposit interest income.