"Pure H2O" water filtration system - fact or myth?

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Friend of mine worked for council and now epa and he laughs at all these 'filters' ,as one poster said ..you'd be better off just getting it privately tested for a few hundred quid. Granted as regards bacteria or water softness then fair enough, but to install these things just to improve the taste is ludicrous.

Have a look at these dudes on dragons den http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=8-GPiTTAJT8 .
Same old 'science' spiel. Like those 'foot detox patches' that turn black over night after 'draining' the toxins out of your body.
Draining the money out of your wallet I reckon.
 
I had them in a while back to get a quote, and wouldn't go near them. They were way overpriced, and the salesman knew less than I did, and was extremely pushy.

Having said that, zenn seems to have too much knowledge in this field to merely be an interested bystander. Should there be a declaration of interest, or that s/he works in this field for a competitor?
 
Zenn, thanks for all the useful info.

My sister had a call (to the door) from a salesman the other day. He left testing kit for her and told her they would ring her to follow up. She was telling me about it as she was suspicious with the way they were operating... i.e all in the house to be present etc.

When phone operator called her they told her she would get Spa Weekend without signing up .. just for testing the water. At this point they had still not mentioned that they were even selling a product. As for there brochure - it has no clear company name on it, no website, etc.

So after googling we found company name "Pure H20" - all they used on documentation is H20. Thanks to AAM we now have full picture!! Do you think there is any way we could still get Spa weekend out of them without purchasing? :)

The key is - you never get a free meal in life!
 
My Dad had a phone call about 3.5 years ago asking if a sales agent could call around, no pressure. So he agreed, and the guy came.

He did that test with the water, and ended up staying hours. Everytime we said we would need to think about it, he got agressive and angry and made snide remarks about all the money we spend on bottled water.

I think after the time he stayed, everyone was so tired and frustrated that my Dad agreed to get in the unit. As stated before, a deposit was needed and he left some cheap umbrella as a 'free gift' for having him.

The unit is attached to a small tap placed at the sink. The water is cold and clean, however there is a definate taste to it. The service price goes up every year, even though at the time we thought the man said it would stay the same. Funnily enough, the two filters always need changing.

If it were me again, I wouldnt get the unit. Its way too expensive and doesnt help the rest of the house for example if you have limescale.

The only plus side is if you use this in your iron or kettle, you wont get limescale.
 
"2580 for everything, then u pay an annual charge of 137.00" oh my, this is basically money for old rope, if you can be sign up for that well, you have plenty of money or else ....what do they say about people easily parted with money :). 2580 and you can just buy a ordinary filter for your water which is compeletly sufficien and you don t remove all the good out of the water, pure water is no good for children or adults, you need the calcium and other trace elements, I would nt drink it for free. Anyways do ppl really drink that much water, I dont know, I do when I work out, bust one /two glass a day max. This is a myth about pure water, but you get what you pay for ...lmao.
 
pure h20 called out home about 4 months ago. Same pressure/scare tactics but I decided to entertain him.

We have a private well and after he tested the water he said it was not fit for human consumption as he had so many PPM impurities etc. When he was finished I told him we had the water professionally laboratory tested recently and it passed ok. I told him that based on his own analysis of the water I would have to pursue the lab. Funnily enough he declined offering his mobile number to pursue this...... sounded so dodgy.

Makes you angry though as I am sure plenty of people would fall for the story.
 
Saw this- accurate in my view. I work for a council and I had to assist a lady recently with water test results- she was conned into agreeing to buy 2 of these systems (one for her parents) after the old jam jar test routine. She was taken to court when she stopped the cheque- it was settled before trial by H2O, but I don't know the exact outcome otherwise.

The recent water scares in Galway and now the lead scare have caused people to doubt water quality generally. This leaves naive/uninformed people very open to exploitation.

I think the fact the H20 wouldn't give an interview was significant. The owner was on Pat Kenny today sounding very desperate- I'd say his days are numbered. I feel sorry for the innocent employees, but it's a scam and needs to be ended.....
 
Lasts nights Tv programme (Philip Boucher Hayes) on it said it all. It covered the whole topic on RTE & the company . End result , get your water tested by an independant company if you have concerns
 
Just to add my little bit, pure h20 to drink is not very wholesome as all the minerals as well as the muck are filtered out! Its a shame that honesty and integrity goes out the window. greed, now look where it has got us.

noah
 
Top scientists are baffled as to what guidelines to recommend for minerals in water. Even then if they decided on what to do they would not know how limits could be implemented.

The purest water able to be produced in a laboratory at 18 mega ohm conductivity is about as pure as you can get, using tens of thousands of euros worth of equipment.

Live cells would burst if they were dropped into this water due to the natural process of osmosis in the cell walls in contact with the sterile water.

Cellular membrane osmotic potential would draw water into the cell causing the cell to expand and burst. The reverse would happen if the cell was dropped into highly saline water as the less saline water in the cell would be drawn out because of the osmotic potential working in reverse, shrinking the cell like dried up prune.

A low grade RO such as the Pure H2O RO-DI would not produce water to this sort of level but scientists and RTE reporters have fears that even cheap RODI systems may have some cellular osmotic potential effects if RODI filtered water is taken into the body.

This is of some debate. A normal RO with water buffered in the low mineral range is even unlikelier to have any effects, if minerals are at levels of say 5 to 30 mg/L.

Foods are considered wholesome because of a number of factors such as vitamins, nutrients, calories, proteins, carbs, high minerals and a range of other biological food related yumminess.

Water has none of the above except water is expected to have some unknown level of mineral content which scientists in 2008 have yet to consider or agree on what level this should be, and in what combination, whether calcium, magnesium, zinc etc.

If levels were recommended at a minimum or maximum level, then nearly all bottled water companies would be closed down if a limit of say 80 mg/L was adopted. If a lower limit of 40 mg/L was adopted then some lower spring water brands could also go out of business.

Around 90 to 95 % of Irish municipal, public and private water schemes would be closed down also for not fitting into this narrow tolerance mineral range.

If 20 years was given for naturally soft mains water schemes to raise their mineral content to over 40 mg/L, then 20 years would not be adequate, and little or none would comply within this time range, as the basic things such as exceedances in bacteria and nitrates would rank in higher importance and even these things may not get properly attended to.

If hard water schemes containing high levels of calcium in the 200 to 400 mg/L range (as calcium carbonate) then these schemes numbering possibly 50 % of all Irish water supplies would have to go through some form of industrial reverse osmosis treatment process to allow mineral levels to fall within range. The cost of this pipe dream would not be seen in the next 100 years.

Top scientists will still be baffled for the next 20 years trying to decide upon and give any recommendations but wondering how mineral limits in any source of water can be implemented.

Suggested studies have always come and gone, whether European or W.H.O inspired.

The subjects of drinking plenty of beer, wine, scotch and vodka along with smoking plenty of cigarettes, eating pork laden with salt and dioxins and a range of other bodily pollutants are things currently under review and have problems in their control and misuse.

Trying to tackle the mineral issue is going to be a tough one for scientists. The easiest form of mineral adjustment to accurate levels in water is by filtering water on a domestic household level and then adjusting mineral levels by using mineral cartridges after filters.

Maybe not using a pure h2o system for 2,100 euros, but just a normal RO costing from 200 euros.
 
Just got this information to throw into the debate ...


Nutrient minerals in drinking-water and the potential health consequences of consumption of demineralized and remineralized and altered mineral content drinking-water: Consensus of the meeting
Introduction.


Desalination of sea and brackish water is widely practiced and rapidly growing as the principal source of new fresh water in the world. Water treatment processes including desalination followed by remineralization alter the mineral composition of drinking water compared to water derived from many conventional fresh water sources. The WHO Guidelines for Drinking-water Quality (GDWQ) provide a point of reference for drinking water quality regulations and standards setting world-wide. The Guidelines are kept up-to-date through a process of ‘rolling revision’ which include the development of accompanying documents substantiating the contents of the guidelines and providing guidance on experience with good practice in achieving safe drinking-water. This plan of work includes the development of guidance on good practices of desalination as a source of safe drinking water.

To examine the nutritional aspects of water consumption as part of the process for guidance development, WHO assembled a group of nutrition, medical and scientific experts on November 11-13, 2003 in Rome, Italy at the WHO European Centre for Environment and Health. The meeting was attended by 18 technical participants from Canada, Chile, Czech Republic, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Moldova, Singapore, Sweden, UK and USA. The task was to examine the potential health consequences of long term consumption of water that has been ‘manufactured or modified’ to add or delete minerals and thus may have altered mineral content.

We wish to express our appreciation and gratefully acknowledge the organizations that provided financial and other support for the meeting. These included the International Life Sciences Institute (ILSI); the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Offices of Ground Water and Drinking Water (Washington, D.C.), and Research and Development (Research Triangle Park, North Carolina); the American Water Works Association Research Foundation; the Center for Human Nutrition, University of Nebraska Medical Center, Omaha, Nebraska USA; and Health Canada, Water Quality and Health Bureau, Ottawa, Ontario Canada. WHO, Water Sanitation and Health, Geneva. WHO European Regional Office, Rome. WHO, EMRO, Cairo.

Expert Committee Members: Roger Aertgeerts, Rebecca Calderon, Gerald Combs, Joseph Cotruvo, Gunther Craun, Jan Ekstrand, Floyd Frost, John Fawell, Ann Grandjean, Suzanne Harris, Frantizek Kozisek, Michael Lennon, Silvano Monarca, Denis O’Mullane, Manuel Olivares, Choon Nam Ong, Souleh Semalulu, Ion Shalaru, Erika Sievers. Contributors: Charles Abernathy, Kunal Bagchi, Jamie Bartram, Leslie Klevay, F. Donato, Joyce Donohue, George Hallberg, Peter Lassovszky, Curtis Morris, Ricardo Uauy, Helen Whelton, I. Zerbini.

In 1999, WHO’s Eastern Mediterranean Regional Office had initiated a proposal to develop Guidance on desalination because numerous existing facilities had developed on a case-by-case basis with potentially inconsistent consideration of important principles of siting, coastal zone protection, chemicals and contact surfaces used in plant operation, water treatment and plant construction , contaminants, water distribution, microbial control and final product water quality. International consensus guidance would reduce ad hoc decision making, facilitate informed decision making and thus reduce costs and allow more rapid project completion. Such guidance would be timely given the rapidly-increasing application of desalination world-wide. In 2000, the proposal to proceed was endorsed at a WHO Guidelines on Drinking-water Quality Committee meeting in Berlin, Germany. In May 2001, the proposal was examined at a dedicated expert consultation in Manama, Bahrain and an operating plan and program were proposed.

This Expert Meeting addressed several health considerations potentially arising from long-term consumption of water derived from water that has undergone major alteration in its mineral content, such that it must be remineralized to be compatibile with piped distribution systems. It examined the relationship between calcium and magnesium in drinking water on certain cardiovascular disease risks, and also health consequences of consumption of fluoride in drinking water.
Background

Drinking water, regardless of its source, is usually subjected to one or more of a variety of treatment processes aimed at improving its safety and/or aesthetic quality. These processes are selected according to the source water and the constituents and contaminants that require removal. Surface fresh waters will often undergo coagulation, sedimentation, rapid sand filtration and disinfection. Ground waters, which are often naturally filtered, usually undergo less treatment which could be limited to disinfection alone. Additional treatment processes could include pH adjustment, softening, corrosion control chemicals addition, alkalinity adjustment, carbon filtration/adsorption, membrane filtration, slow sand filtration and supplemental fluoridation. The disinfectants applied could include chlorine, chlorine dioxide, ozone, or chloramines. Some substances will be added by the chemicals used for treatment i.e. direct and indirect additives.

For waters with high salinity (e.g. up to ~ 40,000 ppm) such as sea water or brackish waters, treatment processes must remove most of the dissolved salts in order to make the water potable. The major methods include reverse osmosis, membrane treatments or several distillation/vapor condensation processes. These processes require extensive pretreatment and water conditioning, and subsequent remineralization so that the finished water which is now significantly different from the source water will not be overly aggressive to the piped distribution systems that it will pass through on the way to consumers. In the course of water treatment, contaminants and some potentially beneficial nutrients will be removed and some might be added. Other waters, although not deliberately demineralized may also undergo significant changes in their mineral content due to the treatment processes.

Remineralization and increased alkalinity for stabilization of the water are often accomplished by use of lime or limestone. Caustic soda, bicarbonate, sodium carbonate, phosphates, and silicates are sometimes used alone or in combination. The mineral composition of limestone is highly variable depending upon the quarry location and it is usually predominantly calcium carbonate, but often contains significant amounts of magnesium carbonate along with numerous other minerals. Quality specifications exist for chemicals and materials used in the treatment of drinking water. These specifications are intended to assure that drinking water treatment grade chemicals will be used and that their addition will not inadvertently contribute significant levels of potentially harmful contaminants to the finished drinking water under typical use conditions.
Charge to the Expert Group

The group was asked to examine several issues relating to the composition of drinking water that has undergone significant treatment relevant to drinking water guidelines aimed at protecting and enhancing public health:

* What is the potential contribution of drinking water to total nutrition?
* What are the drinking water intake requirements for individuals considering climate, exercise, age etc.?
* Which substances are often found in drinking water that can contribute significantly to health and well-being?
* Under what conditions can drinking water be a significant contribution to the total dietary intake of certain beneficial substances?
* What conclusions can be drawn on the relationship between calcium, magnesium, and other trace elements in water and mortality from certain types of cardiovascular disease?
* For which substances, if any, can a case be made for supplementation of mineral content in treated drinking water from the public health perspective?
* What is the role of fluoride in drinking water with respect to dental benefits and dental fluorosis, and skeletal fluorosis?



This is the start of a proposition of an international scientific action group who are just starting to get their heads around mineral content in water in 2008, and there is another 10 pages of this stuff, which I will try to control myself from littering the forum with.

After reading 10 pages of it, the international steering group seem not to really know where to start, but have a thousand stopping points in complicating the issue of adding or removing minerals from water.

I still think any type of RO system on well water or municipal water is more protective of the public taking into account value for money.

Any brand will do, just don't go paying daft money for it.

Add a mineral cartridge if you like for taste but it is not a massive deal.

A normal RO will render Galway water at 400 ppm mineral content down to 20ppm which seems to just about fall into the international steering group's starting suggestions for mineral content.

Even then, they have about 20 years to decide what they are going to decide.

A Pure H2O unit however has about 0 mineral content unless the DI cartridge is taken off and a mineral cartrdidge is put on.

Hold on ? They won't be able to call their systems RO-DI systems after this correction.

If they leave their DI cartridge on, and add a mineral cartridge on after, this is a waste of time and an added cost of service that they will still not clearly state on their website.
 
Sorry Zenn
( cc ajapale )

I started to really value your opinion right until the point you stated you had been talking to an alleged installer of H20. This would insinuate to me and other people looking to clean up their water, you have a personal grudge against H2O which is in conflict to the ethics of this site, now I am really confused who to trust !

Please can someone offer impartial advice to protect consumers like myself.



The nation seems to have a grudge after their expose on RTE.

It is no mystery that they were exposed with their tricks. Decide for yourself what you want to do with your water.
 
Hi.
I just got a call from one of their reps trying to tell me that I`d won a spa break because I took part in a recent survey. I got suspicious when they told me that they would need to call to give me my prize and that we would both need to be here. I know what to say when she rings back later this evening.
 
If you do invite them round, check out a few of these things;


1) Ask to see the actual appliance they are selling.

2) Ask if they can prove where all the parts are injection moulded and assembled.

3) Ask if the system is top quality NSF and WQA Gold Seal certifed.

4) Ask for the full printed price up front on a brochure or some authentic documentation or pricelist, so there are no secrets or prices are not invented on the spot.

5) Check if they have a printed pricelist of regular service costs for all things that need to be serviced over the life of the system, plus any periodic disinfection.

6) Ask if the appliance they are selling requires any form of disinfection treatment against biofilm build up within the system lifespan.

7) Ask if the owners of Pure H2o ran the Ionics Ireland company a few years ago.<snip>.

8) Get a few bottles of Kerry, Volvic, Evian, BallyGowan, etc, pour into separate glasses and ask them if they reckon they are fit to drink, by whatever testing methods they are now using.

9) Ask why Pure H2o keep getting debated on the Joe Duffy radio show by disgruntled customers and were exposed on RTE 1 in December on Buyer Beware.

10) Ask what improvements were made to their filter system over the period of 5 years when the price went up 200 euros every year from 1,400 to 1,600 to 1,800 to 2,000 to 2,200 euros, along with a doubling of their service costs from 80 euros to 160 euros and ask if there is any substantial drop in their prices now there is a recession, and does this mean they are going to reduce the quality of the system and the back up service.
 
There is no such thing as pure water.

If you spend a hundred thousand euro on the most sophisticated DI water plant for "ultra pure" water production say for semi conductor chip manufacture, and reach water of a purity of 18.3 mega ohm conductivity, as pure as can be achieved, you still have the problem of h2o ion dissociation where hydrogen and hydroxyl ions naturally split from water molecules.

Because of the fact that hydrogen and hydroxyl ions will always exist in every 500 million parts of water, regardless of the water filtration process, then it is impossible to produce completely pure water.

Pure H2o Aquathin sytems comprise of around 100 dollars worth of Asian made injection moulded components, and produce water of a basic DI quality. So maybe, no, semi-pure water produced by Aquathin filters might not make you ill unless the RO system becomes contaminated.

Because the Aquathin RODI system uses a DI cartridge unlike most other RO systems, it raises the risk of harvesting "nesting bacteria" in the DI resins within the cartridge.

This is a well understood condition and it makes little sense to add a DI cartridge to a domestic RO because of this risk, to only try to get a minor reduction in TDS.

It is better to leave a few minerals in the water than risk bacterial infection, so to think about it, maybe RODI systems can make someone ill if they are not periodically disinfected. As Pure H2o do not have any regular comprehensive disinfection procedures for their RO systems, then infection is a progressively likely scenario in DI modules.
 
This is a very interesting thread if you are considering water treatment systems.



It got quite interesting a few months ago Ajapale !

Pure H2O went liquidated on the Company Register on the 24th of December 2009 !

The website is still there, but no products being sold. I wonder if the telephone lines are diverting to the servicing set up.

They currently have listings as just - H2o and H2o services.

The servicing operation is now being rolled out more fully and the plan is to set up old Pure H2o customers on service contracts to replace several euros worth of filters each year for something like an annual cost around 200 euros.
 
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