Public servant €8k taken from final gratuity for widows and orphans 2017

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stoves1

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I was helping a retired nurse friend of mine recently with her nurses pension etc and she gave me documents which state that €8k was deducted from her lump sum on retirement in March 2017 towards widows and orphans scheme, i myself retired from public service in 2022 and got circa 10k deducted from my lump sum on retirement, where it was stated that i could claim tax back on my deduction which i duly did and recieved 40% back this year circa €4k.
I just would appreciate if there is any advice out there as to how/if my friend the nurse could claim tax back or is it too late? she was not aware that she could claim tax back, also bearing in mind that her employer HSE just deducted the money but did not state anywhere that she may be entitled to claim tax back on the amount, appreciate any advice on this
 
It's sadly too late. The disgraceful Revenue 4 year rule means that it's now impossible to claim refunds relating to 2018 or earlier years.

It's a problem that seems to especially hit public service retirees.
 
I was just wondering if their is anyway that she could appeal this, even on sympathetic grounds as the lady had to retire due to family tragedy, also as i said the HSE did not state or mention on her final pension statement anything about tax relief unlike my own when i retired from public service last year IE Garda, which stated
" Tax relief has not been granted in respect of the deductions shown in the attached schedule, You are advised to seek tax relief from the Revenue Commission in respect of these deductions. The Scheme is an exempt approved scheme under Part 30, Chapter 1 of the Taxes Consolidation Act 1977, Scheme Revenue No.---- Pensions Board No is PB----"
In her Pension statement it just says Lump Sum €57, 790 Less arrears due in respect of Spouses and childrens contributions €7977.00 with no information unlike my own.
Not alone did she get no information on her statement, i have noticed that she has had no increase in this HSE nurses pension since she retired in 2017, i have sent emails to 3 different HSE pensions adresses in the past 3 weeks but no reply!
I was thinking of going down either Citizens Information, Pensions Ombudsman, Local TD, or look for a revenue appeals officer any ideas pls
 
stoves1 said:
I was just wondering if their is anyway that she could appeal this, even on sympathetic grounds as the lady had to retire due to family tragedy, also as i said the HSE did not state or mention on her final pension statement anything about tax relief unlike my own when i retired from public service last year IE Garda,
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Zero chance of a successful appeal. The Tax Appeals Commission regularly throw out appeals of this nature which invariably involve at least some level of hardship.

As I said above it's a disgraceful state of affairs.

You should raise it with your local government TDs who implicitly support this nonsense.
 
stoves1 said:
I was helping a retired nurse friend of mine recently with her nurses pension etc and she gave me documents which state that €8k was deducted from her lump sum on retirement in March 2017 towards widows and orphans scheme, i myself retired from public service in 2022 and got circa 10k deducted from my lump sum on retirement, where it was stated that i could claim tax back on my deduction which i duly did and recieved 40% back this year circa €4k.
I just would appreciate if there is any advice out there as to how/if my friend the nurse could claim tax back or is it too late? she was not aware that she could claim tax back, also bearing in mind that her employer HSE just deducted the money but did not state anywhere that she may be entitled to claim tax back on the amount, appreciate any advice on this
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stoves1 said:
Just a query on how you claimed the tax back from revenue? I retired recently and paid arrears for S& C pension from my gratutity lump sum. My company didnt give any information about it and didn't even make me aware that it was a possibility.
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T McGibney said:
[This is] a problem that seems to especially hit public service retirees.
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For me, it's one that the Public Service Unions really should be informing their members about.

My better half recently claimed her preserved teacher's pension* and, to their credit, the Department of Education Pensions Section sent her a document [called Rettax1] that she could use to claim a tax refund in respect of the Spouses and Orphan's deduction from her lump sum.

* Clarification: She isn't preserved, but her pension was!
 
Marsupial said:
For me, it's one that the Public Service Unions really should be informing their members about.

My better half recently claimed her preserved teacher's pension* and, to their credit, the Department of Education Pensions Section sent her a document [called Rettax1] that she could use to claim a tax refund in respect of the Spouses and Orphan's deduction from her lump sum.

* Clarification: She isn't preserved, but her pension was!
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Thanks Marsupial,
I will try to get a further information from the union and the pension operators.
Is the Rettax1 document, specific to Dept of Education pension scheme?
 
I got a similar document from my HR when I retired (civil service) - mine was referred to as an IoT document (presume an old reference to Inspector of Taxes). It was part of a sheaf of paperwork I received.
 
stoves1 said:
I was helping a retired nurse friend of mine recently with her nurses pension etc and she gave me documents which state that €8k was deducted from her lump sum on retirement in March 2017 towards widows and orphans scheme, i myself retired from public service in 2022 and got circa 10k deducted from my lump sum on retirement, where it was stated that i could claim tax back on my deduction which i duly did and recieved 40% back this year circa €4k.
I just would appreciate if there is any advice out there as to how/if my friend the nurse could claim tax back or is it too late? she was not aware that she could claim tax back, also bearing in mind that her employer HSE just deducted the money but did not state anywhere that she may be entitled to claim tax back on the amount, appreciate any advice on this
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Why was the €8k deducted in the first instance ? And only deducted at the last minute ?
Was it not being deducted from ongoing salary ?
It seems contradictory if one government body can reduce a lump sum in respect of years of outstanding contributions ( if that is the case ) but another government body won’t grant tax relief on the same money claiming it is statute barred ( if that is their explanation )
 
Some people (myself included) found that, if they had opted out of the S&C scheme and were later opted in due to a change of job, S&C contributions were owed back to the date of first employment. In my case, this date pre-dated the scheme itself, which seemed very unfair. Any arrears due are deducted from the retirement lump sum, and can come as quite a surprise to retirees.
Revenue will grant tax relief, provided it is claimed for within their time frame of 4 years. This applies to any tax relief claim (e.g. health expenses)
 
It still frustrates me that those with no S&C can't get a refund of their contributions on retirement if they sign a doc confirming they waive all rights to a spouse's pension in the future. Wildly unfair.
 
messyleo said:
It still frustrates me that those with no S&C can't get a refund of their contributions on retirement if they sign a doc confirming they waive all rights to a spouse's pension in the future. Wildly unfair.
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The problem there is that your spouse would have to sign too! And as s/he doesn't yet exist, that could present a major problem!

A cunning revenge might be to arrange to marry a youngster on your deathbed, whereupon s/he would be able to draw down the spouse's pension for the next 80 years!
 
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stoves1 said:
i have sent emails to 3 different HSE pensions adresses in the past 3 weeks but no reply!
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@stoves1 did you get any resolution on the issue?

You mentioned that your friend was charged for the S&C contribution by the HSE Superannuation administrator and did not receive tax relief. You mentioned that you as a retiring Garda paid a similar contribution at retirement but received tax relief.

Was it the case that you were charged 1.50% for the S&C contribution and received tax back but that your friend was charged 1.00% with no tax back?

I know the HSE deducts 1% at the point of retirement but the administration of the Garda pension may be different.

I always assumed the lower 1% rate was to effectively incorporate tax relief.
 
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