Public sector pay

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shnaek

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I have never been a big fan of Michael McDowell but fair play to him for standing up against the prison officers. When I see the pay rate rises in the public sector being so far ahead of the private sector, and when I see the private sector having to pay for it all, and when I see that officials in the department of health didn't even read important legal memos before a crucial meeting, my blood boils. Why would anyone work in the private sector? I've been made redundant twice as companies closed. I have no pension. But I worked hard for long days and I did the job I was paid to do as well as I could.

The way I see it irish people have three choices:
1. Become an artist so you don't have to pay tax and none of this would worry you.
2. Become super rich so you can avoid paying tax and none of this would worry you.
3. Join the civil service, so you can enjoy massive pay, great benefits and never be fired, so none of this will worry you.

Bloody sickening.
And still most of the government kneel before them.

"I would counsel people very strongly against taking industrial action . . . I can't be beaten on this one."

Fair play to you, Mr McDowell. I know most of the country are behind you on your stand in this matter.
 
How far do you want Mullah McD to go? How long would you like to see the Gardai and/or Army running our prisons?
 
Umm when did McD become a member of the Islamic clergy? Doubt if anyone wants the guards and army doing the job at all. Likely this is just brinksmanship, apparently the the 60-70K on offer is acceptable just with a couple problems to sort out specifically the group of officers who didn't work overtime who now will be expected to work longer hours. Real strikes among well paid workers don't seem to happen any more. (I suspect the well paid have more serious debts to manage.)

That said it can be a tough job and it's not one most people would feel themselves able for. On the other hand [broken link removed]
(read it and weep), shows that the 30% ASTI were claiming in 2001 has actually been achieved in Dec 04. Be interesting to know what our tax rates will need to be in 10-20 years to pay these and the subsequently inflated pensions. Shame we don't have a socialist government like the UK where union greed seems to be controlled and wages increases kept around inflation. Personally consider the increases in the public sector to be close to fraud. Plus how hard can it be to not employ 9000 more than the cap - was that just pure stupidity or is there a decent reason.
 
Just thought that I would add comments to this as I know that the prison officers are generally not allowed discuss alot of details and therefore all comments tend to be one sided and they do indeed get bad press...... the pay offer was conditional even after acceptance and was around 12-14k not 60 or 70. It also meant that overtime would be complusory if as the previous poster added, you don't do any now. Lets face it life is hard enough without living in your job ! one thrid voted to take it regardless and as with everythig else its the 2% that earn all the money that get the publicity.
I wouldn't work there would you?
 
Fully agree with you Shnaek, although Mrs Keane falls into the catgegory of public service it makes my blood boil when every few months I hear "oh we got another pay rise coming through".

What really sickens me is the pension extravaganza on top of the pay being upped all the time. They have Defined Benefits something that is becoming a real luxury in the real world and they don't contribute to it - what a joke!

Just check on of the pension calculator to see what the vale of that is - I know lots of people in private organisations who even though they pump lots of money into AVCs may never have the same benefits and lack job security.

There also seems to be plenty of early retirement options too- eg. cops can go after 30 years with pension entitlements. Failed teachers invariably get the same bonus and I think the old prison officers have a similar arrangement. Course they could also go out sick for the last few years too......


Aaaaaaggghhhh!
Roy
 
RainyDay, I don't necessarily want to see the Gardai/army running our prisons, and I know the prison officers have a tough job, but to me you would need to be doing a tough job to achieve pay of 60-70k.

What I am doing is backing McDowells stance. It would be better for us all if more government ministers took stances on important issues, and make the tough decisions in the best interests of the country as a whole. After all, if the politicians aren't making decisions, and making those decisions with the best interests of the majority in mind, then what is democracy all about?

All the money the government currently has is being devoured by pay rises instead of a combination of pay and infrastructure. When these rich times come to an end we'll have nothing to show for it. ashambles says the teachers achieved their 30%. My Dad is a teacher so I am sympathetic to them, but I still believe that we would all be better off if half that 30% went on school infrastructure and not short term gain for the few.

And why aren't people who's job it is to run the health service not fired when they do not do their job? Or any other civil servant for that matter? If one was to sit in one's office all day and play pac man I don't think one would get fired.
 
Just like the rule of good parenting, Mad Mullah McDowell needs to ensure he isn't making empty threats, i.e. if he threatens something, he has to be prepared to deliver it.
 
You betray a slight bias in your comments rainyday. I detect subtle signals in your post that you may not like our esteemed minister for Justice (oh, and law reform).
 
umop3p!sdn said:
AAM used to take quite a strong stance on libellous comments.
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We've just received some strong legal writs from the legal representatives of the Mad Mullah's complaining about being associated with McDowell. I withdraw my comments.
 
RainyDay said:
How far do you want Mullah McD to go? How long would you like to see the Gardai and/or Army running our prisons?
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Back on topic; I would like to see him keep going 'till the prison officers accept that the minister of justice employs them and he or she sets policy and makes executive decisions for the prison service and it cannot be run for the exclusive purpose of enriching those who are employed to run it.
 
onekeano said:
Defined Benefits ................ and they don't contribute to it - what a joke!
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Ah yes, good old "bash the public servants" time again. And never mind the facts - just make them up as you go along. Any old misconception is good enough. The truth is that ALL public service pensions are contributory for new entrants since April 1994. And even pre-94 entrants make an implicit contribution (recognised in countless arbitration findings) by virtue of their salaries being reduced to correspond exactly for the lack of an explicit contribution.
 
Purple said:
Back on topic; I would like to see him keep going 'till the prison officers accept that the minister of justice employs them and he or she sets policy and makes executive decisions for the prison service and it cannot be run for the exclusive purpose of enriching those who are employed to run it.
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So you are OK with the Army and/or Gardai running the prisons for a few weeks/months to get this result?
 
Observer,

You are correct that all public service pensions have been contributory since 1994 (for new entrants). This however misses the point that the Civil Service Superannuation Scheme is a Defined Benefit; Unfunded (pensions paid out of the exchequer) and is Index linked to wage of the grade from which the Employee retired.

These are far better conditions than occur in the private sector (and indeed the commercial semi state sector).

ajapale
 
Rainyday wrote: So you are OK with the Army and/or Gardai running the prisons for a few weeks/months to get this result?
No I am not at all OK with that but if it is what is required to stop a group of self serving prison guards holding the government and people of this country to ransom then I don't see how anyone could oppose it.
 
What's your view on the matter RainyDay?
Do you think the Prison Officers should have been left earning such huge salaries due to their overtime system?
Do you think that the minister of Justice as their employer should not seek to change the system as it now stands?
Would you agree that your dislike of the man will to some extent colour your opinion of the actions he takes?
RainyDay said:
I guess the Army & Gardai might have a different view, for a start.
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can you expand on that point please?
 
I believe it's fairly easy to rant & rave about overtime when we both know well it's such a dirty, dangerous job that neither you nor I would touch it with a 40 ft bargepole. My personal dislike of Mad Mullah McDowell isn't really relevant. My dislike of his frequent public posturing (e.g. 2,000 extra Gardai, I'll keep manners on FF) which is not backed up by any action is quite relevant here.
 
I take your point about the nature of the job but if it merits €80'000 a year then that should be the salary. It shouldn't be the case that a system of overtime is abused in order to inflate wages beyond the level that was intended.
This is also about who runs the country. I think it should be our elected government, not SIPTU, IBEC, CORI, the INO or any other self-serving pressure group masquerading as a public interest advocacy group.
I also don't much like McDowell. I think he is a very smart and able man but find him a bit to aggressive and think he should say less and listen more. Having said that I think people like him are necessary in government.
 
I also am no fan of McDowell but if he stands his ground on this one he will be the first politician to stand against the unions in many years.

Perhaps then others will follow and other situations such as those with Dublin airport and decentralisation will get resolved for the benefit of the Irish people and not the benefit of the unions.
 
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