Good Morning. I have received an official adjudication from scope re misclassification of prsi stating my correct classification should be D as opposed to A for previous 23yrs. I am concerned about the refunds I may now be liable for. As class A I have overpaid PRSI but under paid superannuation. I am aware the PRSI refund I will receive will only be for the previous 4yrs, will the superann I owe be subject to a similar time limit? My questions are 1. Does anyone know how these calculations are made? 2. Also I am buying back 10yrs notional service the cost of which would have been calculated at class A ,will any refund to my employer be required for these years? I am 60yrs and planning for my retirement but want to get all this sorted while I am still on an income. Any help guidance greatly appreciated, thanking you
PRSI misclassification implications for employee
- Thread starter noseynu
- Start date
If you've been assessed as a Class D contributor for the past 23 years does than not mean that you are a "Permanent and pensionable employee in the public service"? If so, then you need to identify what pension scheme you should have been in and see what the terms are.
Given that your employer is (presumably) at fault for the PRSI misclassification then surely they should be responsible for making good the missing 23 years of pension? But you may need to pursue this through your HR section, Union or WRC.
In the case of your PRSI overpayments, presumably The Department of Social Protection does! So you will need to complete the application form for Employee Refund of PRSI contributions (PRSI REF1). LINK
As I mentioned above, since your employer is (presumably) at fault for the PRSI misclassification then surely they should be responsible for the cost of making good the missing 23 years of pension? Start your negotiation with them on that basis.
I would imagine that that's a matter for negotiation with the employer. (Bear in mind that there are probably PAYE implications too, so it's a complex and tricky one.)
Do everything in writing and keep copies! Maybe start by writing to your employer itemising the questions you have asked here and asking them how they propose to proceed.
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Thankyou for your reply SueEllen. I will follow the DSP link but it is not at all clear who is liable. Under legislation I will get a refund up to a limit of 4yrs for overpaid PRSI but the ovrmerpaymenys for the other 19yrs are left hanging.
I cannot find any info on the discrepancy concerning superannuation payments and I expect I will be held responsible for the underpayment of those?
What might be logical is not always so....I have no confidence that my employer is liable for their mistake...the 4yr time limit is a case in point.
Re the 10yrs notional buy back I will contact as per your suggestion the Union, but hope to avoid the WRC would like to sort without a case submission. My experience is that info from my HR is peppered with omissions, inaccuracies unfortunately so unreliable.
I would like to talk with someone in DSP re this but dont know who/what area to contact. My queries are tricky so online is difficult.
Thanks for your time and info
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I cannot find any info on the discrepancy concerning superannuation payments and I expect I will be held responsible for the underpayment of those?
What might be logical is not always so....I have no confidence that my employer is liable for their mistake...the 4yr time limit is a case in point.
Re the 10yrs notional buy back I will contact as per your suggestion the Union, but hope to avoid the WRC would like to sort without a case submission. My experience is that info from my HR is peppered with omissions, inaccuracies unfortunately so unreliable.
I would like to talk with someone in DSP re this but dont know who/what area to contact. My queries are tricky so online is difficult.
Thanks for your time and info
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Thankyou for your reply SueEllen. I will follow the DSP link but it is not at all clear who is liable.
You're welcome! But why do you say that? Surely it was your employer who placed you on the incorrect rate of PRSI in the first and has been sending the incorrect payments to Revenue for the past 23 years? (It's their responsibility to select your PRSI Class correctly.)
Yes and it is their error. However from preliminary conversation with SCOPE liability is not clear. They are not in a position to give details as not their area of expertise...they work on legal basis.
The PRSI refunds section may be able to give me clarity on all my queries but I will have to source someone with expertise and experience.
I went to this forum because I cannot be the 1st person to come across this and any one who has gone through the process would be of huge help to me....you know the saying, forewarned is forearmed!
The PRSI refunds section may be able to give me clarity on all my queries but I will have to source someone with expertise and experience.
I went to this forum because I cannot be the 1st person to come across this and any one who has gone through the process would be of huge help to me....you know the saying, forewarned is forearmed!
This is a horror story.
Everyone should regularly check their Prsi record.
They should also familiarise themselves with their correct Prsi class.
www.gov.ie
Everyone should regularly check their Prsi record.
They should also familiarise themselves with their correct Prsi class.
Request a Contribution Statement
Find out how your Contribution Statement can help you calculate your State Pension
www.gov.ie
BlackandBlue
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Curious
60 -23
2023 - 23 = 2000
I thought that the changeover happened in 1995.
Did you pay class D for some years?
Were you with your employer prior to 1995?
You also mention
Did you get a pension statement over the intervening period?
What did it say regarding the incorporation of the state old age pension?
partnership
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Was this the HSE? I am aware it has happened. Also I think Dublin City Council have just discovered https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/0611/1388547-dublin-city-council/
I'm guessing you changed jobs 23 years ago and had been paying D with your old employer but were put onto A with the new one? Are you the only person affected in your current employment? Might be easier to get a fair solution if there are a group of you dealing with it together.
As far as I recall from queries regarding me a few years ago - to stay on Class D after moving jobs, you needed to have no break in service, be full time or job sharing in your new job and eligible to join the pension scheme. I wasn't eligible because I was part-time.
As far as I recall from queries regarding me a few years ago - to stay on Class D after moving jobs, you needed to have no break in service, be full time or job sharing in your new job and eligible to join the pension scheme. I wasn't eligible because I was part-time.
This sounds like a real nightmare Noseynu. What triggered the official adjudication? Are there others of your colleagues in the same boat?
When you started this job 23 years ago and were put in class A was there any correspondence from payroll? I am guessing an employer who may classify staff as class D or A know the far reaching implications of getting it wrong so did they explain why they decided you were class A.
You have underpaid superannuation but were you in a DB or DC scheme and were the correct employee and employer deductions taken for the 23 years. Did you contribute to an AVC. My main concern would be your pension pot status and how that can be rectified to place you in the position you should have been in only for your employers mistake.
I would keep pushing back at your employer that you need to be placed in the position you should have been in pension and prsi wise, and it was their error and the need to rectify it.
When you started this job 23 years ago and were put in class A was there any correspondence from payroll? I am guessing an employer who may classify staff as class D or A know the far reaching implications of getting it wrong so did they explain why they decided you were class A.
You have underpaid superannuation but were you in a DB or DC scheme and were the correct employee and employer deductions taken for the 23 years. Did you contribute to an AVC. My main concern would be your pension pot status and how that can be rectified to place you in the position you should have been in only for your employers mistake.
I would keep pushing back at your employer that you need to be placed in the position you should have been in pension and prsi wise, and it was their error and the need to rectify it.
Yes I did pay D but told by my HR I had to move to A and had to transfer my service. They were not aware of the regs.
So did get pension statements over the years.
The adjudication is correct but the difficulty is accessing the correct info re the implications of the decision.
I will source it in timebut was hoping my post might hit on someone who has been through process or who worked in area. It's not a simple query...numerous strands.
Was this the HSE? I am aware it has happened. Also I think Dublin City Council have just .ity-council/
So did get pension statements over the years.
The adjudication is correct but the difficulty is accessing the correct info re the implications of the decision.
I will source it in timebut was hoping my post might hit on someone who has been through process or who worked in area. It's not a simple query...numerous strands.
Was this the HSE? I am aware it has happened. Also I think Dublin City Council have just .ity-council/
I'm in the HSE and have had one these. From memory it spaned over 20 too.
She was put on class A as the application said there was a break in service. It later transpired she was on a paid course.
The record was corrected and payroll recalculated the PRSI and superannuation. From memory she had to repay the underpaid superannuation (a repayment plan was set up as far as i know) but only got 4 years of overpaid PRSI.
If she was allowed her full prsi, which she overpaid, back I think it would have balanced out. It's desperately unfair imo.
She was put on class A as the application said there was a break in service. It later transpired she was on a paid course.
The record was corrected and payroll recalculated the PRSI and superannuation. From memory she had to repay the underpaid superannuation (a repayment plan was set up as far as i know) but only got 4 years of overpaid PRSI.
If she was allowed her full prsi, which she overpaid, back I think it would have balanced out. It's desperately unfair imo.
I'm in the HSE and have had one these. From memory it spaned over 20 too.
She was put on class A as the application said there was a break in service. It later transpired she was on a paid course.
The record was corrected and payroll recalculated the PRSI and superannuation. From memory she had to repay the underpaid superannuation (a repayment plan was set up as far as i know) but only got 4 years of overpaid PRSI back.
If she was allowed her full prsi back which she overpaid, back I think it would have balanced out. It's desperately unfair imo.
She was put on class A as the application said there was a break in service. It later transpired she was on a paid course.
The record was corrected and payroll recalculated the PRSI and superannuation. From memory she had to repay the underpaid superannuation (a repayment plan was set up as far as i know) but only got 4 years of overpaid PRSI back.
If she was allowed her full prsi back which she overpaid, back I think it would have balanced out. It's desperately unfair imo.
If the employer put her on the wrong PRSI rate then surely the employer is liable for paying her back the full amount of excess PRSI that they took from from her salary? How hard did she fight for this to happen? Was she (like most HSE employees) a Union member and if so, then why didn't it take a case on her behalf? In the circumstances that you outline, I would imagine that if she (or the OP) took a case to the WRC then it would almost certainly find in their favour.
She was put on the incorrect class because she stated on her application form from x date to y date break in service. If she had a break prsi A was correct. If she stated she was doing a HSE course she would have been put on class D.
Refund of prsi is limited to 4 years (like tax).
I agree the OP should take it further.
Refund of prsi is limited to 4 years (like tax).
I agree the OP should take it further.
Thankyou everyone for your replies - I am very grateful for your time and knowledge.
Its early days but the info I have gathered will help me to address mess.
Just for information I have found out that the 4yr statute of limitations on the PRSI only applies to the DSP, in fact my employer is responsible for submitting the correct PRSI class and therefore I expect must be liable for preceding years.
Also the impact reaches wider to all of the following - any benefits received that were not available to D stamp holders (which is nearly all!); any transferred service bought; any notional years bought; PRSI; Superannuation.
As an employee I made decisions based on what I presumed was correct information from my employer - it was my understanding that I had to work until 65yrs as opposed to 60yrs. Had I been aware I would have structured things to prepare me for an exit at 60yrs (including ensuring I had paid in adequate stamps to become eligible for OAP contributory which is allowable on a Dstamp and now too late for me).
On an additional point that aroise: payscale A and payscale B - introduced to compensate pre95 employees I think in the education sector who post95 were obliged to pay additional superann. I cannot find written info on this and am interested to know which paygrades and roles were impacted. If anyone has info on this you might share.
Anyway thanks again!
Its early days but the info I have gathered will help me to address mess.
Just for information I have found out that the 4yr statute of limitations on the PRSI only applies to the DSP, in fact my employer is responsible for submitting the correct PRSI class and therefore I expect must be liable for preceding years.
Also the impact reaches wider to all of the following - any benefits received that were not available to D stamp holders (which is nearly all!); any transferred service bought; any notional years bought; PRSI; Superannuation.
As an employee I made decisions based on what I presumed was correct information from my employer - it was my understanding that I had to work until 65yrs as opposed to 60yrs. Had I been aware I would have structured things to prepare me for an exit at 60yrs (including ensuring I had paid in adequate stamps to become eligible for OAP contributory which is allowable on a Dstamp and now too late for me).
On an additional point that aroise: payscale A and payscale B - introduced to compensate pre95 employees I think in the education sector who post95 were obliged to pay additional superann. I cannot find written info on this and am interested to know which paygrades and roles were impacted. If anyone has info on this you might share.
Anyway thanks again!