problem solicitor

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Lizzie

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hi there,
I'm in the process of buying a house and going through the documentation relating to the grant of planning permission I discovered that one of the conditions was not met ie the back garden walls were never built.My solicitor has stated that the issue must be dealt with by my own engineer when he goes to survey the house. WHY? I am more than capable of dealing with the local planning dept and should it be confirmed that the planning grant was breached I would not proceed with the purchase so why would I pay now for a full structural survey on the house while the issue of the boundary walls is outstanding? My solicitor is pressuring me all the time to get the survey done and does'nt get it that I will only proceed with the survey WHEN the planning department can confirm that there was no breach of planning approval. She doesn't seem able to comprehend my viewpoint. What should I do about her?
 
Can't help specifically Lizzie but it doesn't sound unusual to me.

Some requirements/queries seem obvious & easy but a solicitor has to ensure that all Ts are crossed etc - especially given what has happened.

E.g. I remember being charged for 'enquiries/searches' by a solicitor a few years back for information that I gave him!

It annoyed me at the time, but he can't take my word for anything - he has to satisfy himself and ensure he is operating completely within the law and according to correct procedure etc.
 
Lizzie said:
..... I am more than capable of dealing with the local planning dept and should it be confirmed that the planning grant was breached I would not proceed with the purchase so why would I pay now for a full structural survey on the house while the issue of the boundary walls is outstanding?
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Obviously, you shouldn't. However, you might benefit from an engineer's advice as to whether the apparent planning breach is one which presents a problem or whether it is one which can safely be ignored. But, of course, if your mindset is that any planning breach at all means no purchase for you, then by all means do as you have outlined.

Lizzie said:
..My solicitor is pressuring me all the time to get the survey done and does'nt get it that I will only proceed with the survey WHEN the planning department can confirm that there was no breach of planning approval. She doesn't seem able to comprehend my viewpoint. What should I do about her?
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You don't really need to do anything about her. Just address the planning issue to your own satisfaction and then instruct your solicitor as to whether or not you wish to proceed. Of course, your solicitor will also have to be satisfied with the situation if there is a mortgage involved ( as your solicitor must certify that there is a 'good marketable title') but the first issue is for you to make your own decision as to whether you want to go ahead. So just tell the solicitor to give you a couple of days, and get the planning enquiries out of the way.
 
If you are making a complaint to the Council in regard to alleged planning contravention then they are obliged to investigate and make a formal decision within prescribed timelimits. I don't have those limits to hand but you should check it out as it is more than a couple of days.
 
Thanks to you all for your replies. The house was built 10 years ago, 1 of several identical on a small private estate. It doesn't have a home bond (just found out) and at least 3 other of the houses also don't have their back garden walls. The puzzling thing to me is why those owners have bought these houses when condition 8 relating to boundary walls was not adhered to. I'm in England and I couldn't see it happening here. The engineer who issued the Cert of Compliance stated that the house is in substantial compliance with the planning grant!!
 
If I understand you, you are worried that the house you are purchasing does not comply with planning because a boundary wall hasn't been built. Well to me that's a relatively minor issue, after all you can build a boundary wall when you purchase the property? If you open this open with the planning office you never know what trouble you'll get into. I know there are some people who want everything perfect but sometimes, when it's relatively minor, one should ignore some things.
 
Bronte, I know it seems a minor consideration but when the boundaries aren't secure my very vulnerable child would not be safe or secure in his own back garden. Besides, I will be paying for a house that was meant to come with garden walls included in the asking price. I will have to bear the expense of having the walls built and I don't think that's fair. I'm worried about what you said about me getting into trouble if I take it up with the planning office- what do you mean?
 
Hi Lizzie,

I think Bronte just means there may be other planning issues that would only come to light if you drew the attention of the planning issue to the problem. Have to say I don't agree.

However I'm not sure I agree with your approach entirely either.

The way I look at it, when you viewed the house you were aware that there was no boundary wall. You presumably agreed to buy it for whatever price, knowing the wall was not there. The only thing that has changed is that you now know that at one point it was a condition of a pp that a boundary wall be built. As the property was built 10 years ago, the local authority will not be able to take any enforcement action against this breach of the pp, so in one way the breach has become somewhat irrelevant. In other words, from the information you have provided, it's a fairly minor issue from a planning perspective and the title to your proper is not affected in a material way.

Having said all that, if you are not willing to purchase the house without a boundary wall, then what you need to do is essentially re-negotiate the price with the vendor. Find out how much it costs to get a wall built, and take that off the purchase price, or make the contract conditional on the vendor building the wall before you complete the purchase.

What I'm saying is that the breach of planning permission is probably not important from a title point of view, but the lack of a boundary wall may be very important to you from a practical point of view. If that is the case, re-negotiate the price.

Best of luck,

Kate.
 
Lizzie, if you want to buy this house and you are worried about the lack of wall it seems to me then it is the safety aspect of there being no wall that is actually bothering you not the fact that the absence of a back wall is a planning breach.

So renegotiate the price to allow for the expense of you having to put in a wall and all the hassle and nuisance that involves or insist on the wall being built as a condition to closing i.e come up with a practical solution..or else walk away from this house entirely. Quite frankly if the house is there 10 years I cannot see anyone in the planning office being too exercised about this

Also the absence of Homebond is a red herring homebond would not give you any protection about this wall..it is not a structural defect in the house and anyway even if homebond applied to this house its protection expires after 10 years

So in summary decide how badly you want this house and then get your surveyor in per your solicitors advice and specifically ascertain how much it will cost to put the wall in,how long it will take and whether you will need planning permission to have it built or not and then go back armed with thos info and renegotiate the price!

BTW and not trying to be smart but when you visited the house before making an offer you must have noticed that there was no wall???

(Just saw Kates post now which makes the same points as mine..)
 
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One last thing..you have an issue about a wall /planning issue/house and yet you chose to title the thread PROBLEM SOLICITOR...:(

Seriously I know that there is a popular perception of us solicitors as being a bunch of theiving money grasping form fillers whose only enjoyment in life is derived from creating problems for our poor beleagured always in the right clients :p but a little bit of perspective please.. could you not have said problem wall or some such:D
 
Hi kate10 and Mandagan

Yes of course I noticed there was no wall. What was there was a low gappy hedge which I would want to replace with a secure wall. But when I found out that a 2m wall was meant to be there I needed an explanation as to why it was not. As yet I haven't been given one . I find it difficult to understand why the planners turned a blind eye- I have now found out that several of the houses on the development were not given their boundary walls. Having read and heard of dodgy dealings in the Irish building game involving developers,builders solicitors and planners I suppose it made me feel very uneasy.

As for the titling - 2 reasons
1 My solicitor can't/won't see it from my point of view
2 I kind of hoped a solicitor would respond !!!

Thanks for the advice and you have swayed me in favour of going ahead with the purchase.
 
why not make the building of the wall a condition of purchase or use it to knock a few k off the price you've negotiated? or are there many people bidding on the house? i would think in the current market they wouldn't want to lose a committed purchaser so use that power to get what you want.
 
Thats what the legal eagles suggest. As far as I know I am the only buyer on the scene. The house has been marketed since Summer 2007 and the selling price today is £50k less! Don't know if he will drop any more. He has a mortgage on the property but he doesn't live in it, he has another house.Seems he rented it out for a while.
 
Lizzie said:
hi there,
I'm in the process of buying a house and going through the documentation relating to the grant of planning permission I discovered that one of the conditions was not met ie the back garden walls were never built.My solicitor has stated that the issue must be dealt with by my own engineer when he goes to survey the house. <snip>
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Why would you use an engineer?
The engineer's speciality is Part A Structure.

Is there some kind of major structural fault that needs to be assessed?
You normally use a building surveyor or an architect to survey a house, not an engineer.

ONQ
 
Having read and heard of dodgy dealings in the Irish building game involving developers,builders solicitors and planners I suppose it made me feel very uneasy.
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I don't think it is a specifically Irish problem, and apart from the missing wall in the garden, I presume you have had an engineer to look at the house itself?
 
You should employ a building surveyor or architect to inspect the house.
You should ask for confirmation that no enforcement actions are current or foreknown in respect of this property.
You should ask for Opinions of Compliance with Planning Permission and Building Regulations.
You should ensire that these contain Schedule A assurances from the site engineer, plumber, electrician, and any and all specialist contractors employed in the built work.
You should seek a specific undertaking or indemnity from the contractor/developer against there being Pyrite in the foundations.
You should request the contractor to erect boundaries in compliance with the permission.
You should ask to see the Health and Safety file for the project.
You should request a Building Energy Rating Certificate.
Really, you should take professional advice.
 
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