True, but they were killing British soldiers in Ireland.
President of Ireland or President of the Republic of Ireland?
- Thread starter Dave Vanian
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True, but they were killing British soldiers in Ireland.
Duke of Marmalade
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Very good point. I think I'll give you that one. Possibly the local FF/FG councillors saw it as a way to get at him, knowing his ultra orthodox views and he fell for it.
If it was opportunistic, you really have to question the mindset of such people to use the memory of fallen Gardai for this purpose.
Let's hope it was just McDonncha being himself rather than some sick and perverse manipulation for political ends.
I said previously that you and I seemed to be in possession of different facts or something to that effect, I can’t check back on this device.
My facts suggest that FG is in fact in government, yours seem to be different.
FG didn't exist back then and nobody in office is over 120 years old.
Am I missing something?
The office of the President of Ireland, sanctioned and endorsed by those sitting in government, still glorifys one of the perpetrators of an indiscriminate bombing campaigns in England that murdered a 14yr school boy.
The people you fear getting into office are already in office.
No, that's not it.
I don't want to get involved in any of this except maybe to broaden the mind of some of you
Some don't seem to know much about the History of Ireland in the last 100 years,
At present, I am re-reading a book I came on when I was clearing out the attic,
The book is by Dr. Noel Browne who resigned from the inter-party government because of the resistance of all the main parties to the Mother and Child scheme,
The name of the book is
( Against The Tide,)
after reading it you would change your mind on who the real child killers in Ireland were for the last 100 years,
I am going to post an extract from page no 7, Childhood in Athlone, He also lived in Derry covered on page 1 I think,
The extract,
Much later in a diary kept by Pader Cowan an officer in the Free State army in Custom Barracks,
I read the blindingly whimsical system whereby the victims were chosen for death.
It was a simple process of taking a group of prisoners from each County, Between November 1922 and May 1923
seventy-seven Republican prisoners in all were to be executed without trial,
since these men had all being in custody at the time of the shooting of Hales and were known to be innocent of the assassination for which the reprisals were being carried out, their killing was indefensible,
The most stunning experience for me was to read how Peadar a parliamentary colleague of mine in later life
recounted the incident of the mass executions without showing any sense of horror shock, guilt, or concern whatever for the whole process or his own part in it, Yet Peadar was what is known in Ireland as 'a devoutly religious man,
Some don't seem to know much about the History of Ireland in the last 100 years,
At present, I am re-reading a book I came on when I was clearing out the attic,
The book is by Dr. Noel Browne who resigned from the inter-party government because of the resistance of all the main parties to the Mother and Child scheme,
The name of the book is
( Against The Tide,)
after reading it you would change your mind on who the real child killers in Ireland were for the last 100 years,
I am going to post an extract from page no 7, Childhood in Athlone, He also lived in Derry covered on page 1 I think,
The extract,
Much later in a diary kept by Pader Cowan an officer in the Free State army in Custom Barracks,
I read the blindingly whimsical system whereby the victims were chosen for death.
It was a simple process of taking a group of prisoners from each County, Between November 1922 and May 1923
seventy-seven Republican prisoners in all were to be executed without trial,
since these men had all being in custody at the time of the shooting of Hales and were known to be innocent of the assassination for which the reprisals were being carried out, their killing was indefensible,
The most stunning experience for me was to read how Peadar a parliamentary colleague of mine in later life
recounted the incident of the mass executions without showing any sense of horror shock, guilt, or concern whatever for the whole process or his own part in it, Yet Peadar was what is known in Ireland as 'a devoutly religious man,
You have no issue with those in high office glorifiying child killers.
There was plenty of evil done in this country by 'devoutly religious men', much of it to women and children.
Nobody comes out of the civil war looking good, particularly the Free State side. The deification of Collins and the demonisation of Dev is one of the strangest things that has happened in the last 30 years. Collins did the best thing anyone can to to protect their legacy and died young and then there was that awful film...
Yea I do.
I have a bigger problem with child killers giving orders to those in power.
The Catholic Church forbid a church service to the seventy-seven Executed their argument at the time is very close to yours today,
I am of an age to have had friends in my late childhood years and early teen and into adulthood who suffered because all the main political parties benefited and turned a blind eye, some have Issued statements apoligising for the state,
It is not the state that needs to apologise FF/FG/Labour need to Issue an apology to all their victims,
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As in?
What did Labour do?
I don't understand your point.
Can you be specific?
Duke of Marmalade
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I decided to broaden my mind and so I consulted Wiki on Free State executions. It is indeed as Browne described. 80 IRA prisoners were executed "legally" for offences like possession of arms. Many more were executed extra judicially. These were pure and simple random reprisals for IRA activity making no pretence to link those murdered with the crimes for which they were executed. This level of executions hugely exceeded the executions by the British following the Easter Rising and during the WoI. And of course nothing of this scale can be levelled against the British during the 30 years of the Troubles. (Not that the British on the world stage were always choir boys, but that is a different rabbit hole.)
Which only goes to show everything has a historical context. The Irish civil war was relatively short. If the Free State had followed Queensberry rules the conflict would have lasted at least 30 years. I think if I was around at the time I would have been with the RC church and the democratic majority wish that State forces should do whatever it was needed to do to impose the will of the people.
The context today is of a still vivid in living memory needless campaign of sectarian terrorism in NI which achieved nothing other than misery. As John Hume and Seamus Mallon observed the injustices suffered by Catholics in the six counties did not warrant even a single death.
Whataboutery such as Free State murder in the civil war or Fenian atrocities in the 19th century can never exonerate in today's context the "Up the 'Ra" mentality of those aspiring to power in this State.
Doctor Noel Browne , A truly great man who endeavoured to bring in a mother and baby scheme in the late '40s which would have provided free medicine which foundered after opposition from private practice doctors and the Catholic Church who opposed " socialised medicine "
Born in Bath Street , Waterford.
It's amazing what people can overcome in life.
The blame needs to be laid at the door of the main political parties FF/FG/LAB and the need to apologize for all the people who lost their lives as a result of their closeness to vested interests,
Sean Lemass used to refer to the late Dr. Noel Browne and Jack McQuillan as the real opposition which speaks for itself, He has more respect for them than all of the rest of the opposition put together,
They spent most of the last 100 years looking after vested interest and still do to this day to this very day,
It should not be that hard to spot,
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