Pope John Paul to be Beatified

Caveat said:
A bit quick apart from anything else isn't it?
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Absolutely, most un-Vatican like. Aren't they supposed to deny there's an issue for 70 years and then issue a barbed apology blaming everyone but themselves when the evidence is indisputable?

Also interesting that through the Pope, God accepts a one off anecdotal tale of curing illness as proof of a miracle, yet the testimonies and scientific proof of child abuse isn’t good enough to show a problem.
 
I watched Deliver Us From Evil during the week - a documentary based on the child abuse of Oliver O Grady - he allows himself to be interviewed in it.

Excellent documentary, very scary stuff, absolutely evil the way he was enabled, protected and covered up for by other members of the Catholic Church.

The current Pope gets a few mentions as the one person who would have had to power to stop what was going on but did nothing.

A miracle that people who perpetrate such evil, assist such evil and protect those who are involved in such evil get to parade around as men of power and influence under the guise of a 'good' religion.

One cant help feeling that the very nature of priesthood and its enforced celibacy is one of the reasons that paedophilia is so rampant within the Catholic Church.
 
truthseeker said:
One cant help feeling that the very nature of priesthood and its enforced celibacy is one of the reasons that paedophilia is so rampant within the Catholic Church.
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Other way round I would say - prospective paedophiles see the church as easy access and take that route.
 
Caveat said:
Other way round I would say - prospective paedophiles see the church as easy access and take that route.
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I wouldnt be surprised if it was a bit of both Caveat.

A lot of priests who went into the priesthood in the 40s/50s were sent by their family (the old Father Ted joke about the favourite son becoming a doctor and the least favourite son becoming a priest). In those cases the priests didnt necessarily choose priesthood for themselves.
 
truthseeker said:
One cant help feeling that the very nature of priesthood and its enforced celibacy is one of the reasons that paedophilia is so rampant within the Catholic Church.
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Plenty of people are celibate for whatever reason and it doesn't make them paedophiles. Sometimes medical issues can cause enforced celibacy but that doesn't trigger paedophilia. I don't agree with this comment I'm afraid....
 
fizzelina said:
Plenty of people are celibate for whatever reason and it doesn't make them paedophiles. Sometimes medical issues can cause enforced celibacy but that doesn't trigger paedophilia. I don't agree with this comment I'm afraid....
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Its not just the enforced celibacy fizzelina. Its the all male training and the 'culture' of paedophilia that is already present.

People who are celibate for their own reasons are completely different - its not 'forced' upon them.

Watch the documentary and see what you think.
 
truthseeker said:
Its not just the enforced celibacy fizzelina. Its the all male training and the 'culture' of paedophilia that is already present.

People who are celibate for their own reasons are completely different - its not 'forced' upon them.

Watch the documentary and see what you think.
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The 'culture' of paedophilia is where exactly? The all male training for priesthood doesn't promote paedophilia, but paedophiles do use the church as an easy avenue to gain access to children, just as teachers do and sports coaches and most prevalent of all uncles and grandads.
 
Back on track - It seems like the curent pope is lining up his predecessor as a saint to set a precedent for his own future sainthood! Jobs for the boys??
 
I heard this on the radio and was a bit confused - When the newsreader announced that "Pope John Paul" was to be beatified, I thought it was John Paul I.....wasn't made clear that it's JPII that's being "promoted"!
 
It's part of our 30 second attention span Hollywood world. Every Pope from now on will be made a saint. The next one will probably appear on the X Factor.
 
If the culture of paedophillia is caused by celibacy how do you account for the level of child abuse prevalent in families. The % of cases involving clergy is low compared to what the number of cases involving families. Both are completely abhorent but dont shield the family abuser by concentrating on the clergy
 
Yorrick said:
If the culture of paedophillia is caused by celibacy how do you account for the level of child abuse prevalent in families. The % of cases involving clergy is low compared to what the number of cases involving families. Both are completely abhorent but dont shield the family abuser by concentrating on the clergy
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5% of convicted paedophiles are priests. I know this because my rented apartment receives a catholic newspaper every month.

Are 5% of the population priests? :)

But I agree with you, child abuse is a bigger problem than most people realise.
 
UFC said:
Are 5% of the population priests? :)
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I can answer my own question.

There are about 4,500 priests in the ROI.

There are about 4,500,000 people in the ROI.

That's 0.1% of the population.

Therefore priests are 50 times more likely to be convicted for paedophilia...
 
Before I give my opinion I'd like to point out that, whilst nominally Catholic (my parents 'dipped' me) I'm no great believer in any 'God' whatsoever. It's all a load of tripe as far as I'm concerned.

I think, however, that to just write-off JPII as the manager of a corrupt and diseased business and therefore worthy of no recognition (sainthood, nobel prize, blah, blah, blah) is wrong. This guy is/was very largely responsible for the collapse of communism in Europe through his shuttle diplomacy in the '80s. That in itself would qualify him for a few accolades. Extrapolating that a bit I wouldn't be married to my wife or have my kids if it weren't for him! Yer! I know I'm stretching it here!!!

The other thing that has to be borne in mind when you go off on an anti-catholic rant ( remember I DON'T wear the tee-shirt) is that catholicism, christianity in general infact, is one of those daft code of beliefs where if a fella says he's sorry and he won't do it again then you have to forgive him and he becomes 'rehabilitated'.

I think that had more to do with the catholic church's reaction to child abuse in Ireland than anything else. Even where they knew it was going on they chose to take that route.

The abuse suffered was not only sexual. I personally had a head master, a Christian Brother, who used to hook us up on the cloakroom hooks, one of those portable ones with wheels, and leave us dangle by our ties for a minute or two whilst we choked if we didn't know our times tables. An abusive a****** who I hope meets a very sticky end if it already hasn't happened. On the other hand the brother from Cork who used to teach us hurling was one of the greatest guys ever. When we all had chicken-pox in the Gaeltact that lad used to come around and paint us all with Calamine lotion 3 times a day. He was a DIAMOND person. I'd love to name him but that would identify the other idiot too and Brendan would be down on me!

You can't write-off the whole organisation because of a few bad apples.

Let JP have his sainthood and if there is a God then let him bless him.
 
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