Plasterers looking for more money.

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We are in the process of building a new house. We originally had local plasterer's booked to do the whole house, but the week before they were due to start they got a contract for 12 houses in Limerick. So after talking to a few friends who were also building, another crowd were recommended to us. They came and we told them to give us a price for the whole house including slabbing, plus the garage. So they came back with a price of €11,000, some of which had to be cash.
Halfways through the job our tiler told us to tell them not to bother plastering the en suite, small bathroom or the main bathroom as they were going to be tiled anyway. When told, they seemed delighted as it was going to be less work for them. However, the day they finished they told us that we were going to have to pay €500 more as they had slabbed and plastered the ceiling of the gagrage and they hadnt it included in their original qoutation.
I said something along the lines of "Get out of it, its not my fault you didn't include it in your price" and took no notice of him. Anyway, we paid him the whole lot in cash. We had owed him €3000 but were waiting for our next draw down to pay him and told him it would be a couple of weeks before we would have it.
Then yesterday morning he rang my fiancee fcking her out of it looking for the money after he saying last week that it was no problem. She got really upset so in the end we had to borrow the €3000 from parents to get him off our backs. At this stage I was adamant that there was no way he was getting the extra €500 euro after being so unprofessional. However he called last night and demanded the money. We told him that it was a bit "Irish" looking for the extra money as he didnt have to do the 3 bathrooms and we asked him day one to price the job, and his price was his price. Plus he got paid the whole €11000 in cash.
To finish the story he is demanding the extra money with " Oh I'm only trying to do an honest day's work for honest pay". We told him we wouldnt have it for a few weeks. My fiancee's dad reckons we should wait for him to contact us and then say to him " Ya no problem, we'll give you the extra €500 but we need a receipt from you first for the €11000 cash in case we are audited" Would this make a difference? I reckon I should just ring him and tell him he's not getting the money, as his price was his price day one. plus, I don't think there is anything he can do about it anyway as there is no contract.
Sorry for being so long, but hate to see fellas doing this kinda thing. Any one with similar experience or advice????
 
Re: Plasterer's looking for more money.

You agreed a price , you paid it in full. End of Story, he probably feels you are a soft touch for an extra €500. Stand up to him and stick to the price. Secman
 
Re: Plasterer's looking for more money.

Unless he checked with your before doing the extra work tell him to go away....

he can't bring you to court or anything because of the whole vat fraud thing....
 
Re: Plasterer's looking for more money.

tell this turkey to get lost. say absolutely no way. he is obviously in trouble with the banks and he is trying to raise cash. you saved him hundreds by paying him in cash. if he calls again i would f**k him out of it on the phone and tell him you are ringing revenue
 
Re: Plasterer's looking for more money.

Just because you paid him in cash doesn't mean that he is defrauding Revenue. Perhaps he owes money in the bank and wants the cashflow. It's not the job of the purchaser/client to ensure that he pays his taxes.
 
Re: Plasterer's looking for more money.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU DIDNT ASK HIM TO DO ANY EXTRA WORK FROM THAT WHICH (oops... caps on) he originally quoted for....

therefore, if he didnt include anything in his price thats HIS fault not yours..... he got the job based on the price... did he furnish you with a quotation on paper??

If he keeps kicking up, threaten him with revenue...


PS, this is a good example as to why you should always have contracts signed with tradesmen...... especially in todays recessionary climate... prices will be given to get in the door, but then extras will start popping up everywhere.
BEWARE
 
Re: Plasterer's looking for more money.

Honestly I would not have seen a need for a contract in a situation such as this! Slab and plaster the whole house for a given price! Very simple.

The fact you pandered to him by getting the final 3k even when it was a headache for ye smacks of a guy reading you as a soft touch!

Bottom line, job is done, he can ring and annoy for the next 20 years, there's no "need" for you to pay him....

Also, by paying cash the tax man is probably loosing out on 13.5%VAT and anything from 20% to 41% in income tax... You have done the guy a big favour by going cash.

If I were in your shoes I'd be looking for a €500 reduction in lieu of the bathroom/ensuite work that didn't need to be done...

Stop being nice - this guy isn't. It's all a game for him to get an extra 500 out of you. He's laughing in the pub with his mates. Tell him to f off and expalin why and don't bother taking his calls.. Simple as!
 
Re: Plasterer's looking for more money.

PS, this is a good example as to why you should always have contracts signed with tradesmen...... especially in todays recessionary climate... prices will be given to get in the door, but then extras will start popping up everywhere.

I disagree. Fixed-price contracts are poor protection against real and imagined "extras" if the customer is inexperienced/unwary/naive in the first instance.

If you insist on written contracts at the outset you will greatly restrict the number of tradesmen who will be willing to quote for you. Those who do will be careful to inflate their quote to take into account the possibility of future extras, and maybe their solicitors' fees on top of that again.

If they suspect that your approach is likely to scare off their competitors, this will motivate them to jack up the prices even more.
 
Re: Plasterer's looking for more money.

I do not see any reason from your story of why you should have to pay anything but I don't like the way he spoke to your girlfriend. Is there any chance you are afraid of them?
 
Re: Plasterer's looking for more money.

I disagree. Fixed-price contracts are poor protection against real and imagined "extras" if the customer is inexperienced/unwary/naive in the first instance.

If you insist on written contracts at the outset you will greatly restrict the number of tradesmen who will be willing to quote for you. Those who do will be careful to inflate their quote to take into account the possibility of future extras, and maybe their solicitors' fees on top of that again.

If they suspect that your approach is likely to scare off their competitors, this will motivate them to jack up the prices even more.


we'll agree to disagree.
I would be extremly wary of any tradesman that wasnt willing to sign a contract, what are they trying to hide?
I would also ensure that i have recieved quotations to do the work BEFORE insisting on a signed contract.....
And i wouldnt be talking about 'fixed price' contracts..... there is always variations and if you have a fixed price contract, any variations will allow the tradesman to screw you.

regarding the job being too small for contracts (delboy).... I would consider no job too small....
 
Re: Plasterer's looking for more money.

I would be extremly wary of any tradesman that wasnt willing to sign a contract, what are they trying to hide?

Its not a matter of trying to hide anything, its more the fear of committing to agreeing to something, either implied in the terms of the contract, or hidden in the small print, that may prejudice their interests later on.

The first question they would/should ask themselves is, has the contract been drawn up with the benefit of legal advice? The second is, should they get their own legal advice? The third, is it worth the hassle?

Fwiw, would you advise a consumer to sign a contract that had been drawn up by a tradesman?
 
Re: Plasterer's looking for more money.

Its not a matter of trying to hide anything, its more the fear of committing to agreeing to something, either implied in the terms of the contract, or hidden in the small print, that may prejudice their interests later on.

The first question they would/should ask themselves is has the contract been drawn up with the benefit of legal advice. The second is, should they get their own legal advice? The third: is it worth the hassle?

Again, if they have no problem doing the job, then they should have no problem signing a contract....... a contract can protect both the client and the contractor.

I have seen lots of examples over the last few months, with work getting scarce, of contractors quoting very low prices for jobs... and then trying to claim extras left, right and centre. Once the client has their initial preparatory work done then they are covered. Contractors who work in this fashion feel that clients are willing to pay over extra to get a job finish hassle free.....

whilst i would stress that the vast majority of contractors i deal with are reputable, there are dangerous people out there....


edit: a contract can be as short as a one page sheet showing agreed price, date of commencement, estimated date of completion, short description of works and signitures of parties...
 
Re: Plasterer's looking for more money.

a contract can protect both the client and the contractor.

...but can also be used by either side to prejudice the interests of the other.

I have seen lots of examples over the last few months, with work getting scarce, of contractors quoting very low prices for jobs... and then trying to claim extras left, right and centre. Once the client has their initial preparatory work done then they are covered. Contractors who work in this fashion feel that clients are willing to pay over extra to get a job finish hassle free.....
But a contract won't necessarily guard against this?
 
Re: Plasterer's looking for more money.

edit: a contract can be as short as a one page sheet showing agreed price, date of commencement, estimated date of completion, short description of works and signitures of parties...

Surely detailed written quotes serve this purpose already?
 
Re: Plasterer's looking for more money.

Surely detailed written quotes serve this purpose already?

yes they can. .either as a contact or as part for a contract....

hence the reason i asked the OP if the contractor furnished him with a written quotation.

contracts dont have to be large legal documents.
 
Re: Plasterer's looking for more money.

When I worked in the UK, every job I did, private or any other way was done with a contract outlining exactly what both parties expected to be done for the price quoted. Any alternations to the argeed works would be priced/amended before any "extra work" took place.
Very good way to run business for all involved.
 
Re: Plasterer's looking for more money.

God, didn't expect so many replies so fast! Got no contract, just word of mouth and told him to work away. Not one bit afraid of him but just wanted to make sure of my rights before I ring him and tell him. In fairness he has the job finished 2 months and was maybe afraid we were going to do him. But last week he was grand when we told him it would be 2 or 3 weeks before we have our next draw down.
Anyway, i rang the National consumer Agency and they are saying exactly what you are all saying here. She said I can either pay him the €500 and the send him a registered letter of complaint saying that a price was agreed etc. then it will be taken to the small claims court and I'll get the money back. But don't want to go to that hassle. So she said just tell him that I was on to them and that I do not have to pay the money and that I don't want to hear from them again.
So was all ready to ring and let him have it, when herself rings me and says" Just after remembering that they have a set of keys to the house from when they were working here!!" What a dose...So now I'm thinkin I should ring him and ask him to post keys asap, and then when I get them, ring him with my good news!!! Dunno though?
 
Re: Plasterer's looking for more money.

So was all ready to ring and let him have it, when herself rings me and says" Just after remembering that they have a set of keys to the house from when they were working here!!" What a dose...So now I'm thinkin I should ring him and ask him to post keys asap, and then when I get them, ring him with my good news!!! Dunno though?

Be straight with him. Ask him politely to return the keys but stress clearly that he is getting no more money.
 
Re: Plasterer's looking for more money.

he's unlikely to give the keys back straight away if he is demanding money - but shouldn't be that expensive to change the locks if he refuses.
 
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