Pension Provider - very difficult to contact - stressful

M

Mothergoose

Registered User
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I am taking early retirement from a job I worked in for 5 years.

I'm moving abroad so am taking the 40k in my pension, minus tax with me. I find it almost impossible to contact them - they are WTW - no one answers the phone, I leave a message and there is no response. I email and they say they will contact me within 10 working days - no response. I was once on a call for 50 minutes waiting to be put through to someone and the line went dead. When I ask them to confirm some correspondence from my employer they don't respond unless I mention that I am so stressed by my interactions with them that I am going to contact the Ombudsman. The reviews for them are terrible - the very same as my own experience with them. I have been dealing with them re my early retirement since October.

I retire next Friday. I do need the money now as in within the next 3/4 months - it has been expensive to move abroad. They say that they can't do anything re my pension until mid April when my last pension contributions are invested as they are monthly in arrears - that's fine with me - but I don't think I can go through further months of attempted communications with no response from them unless I threaten Ombudsman.

It's been incredibly stressful dealing with them, and has put me off getting a pension overseas. Would I be better writing to the Ombudsman about my experience and letting them know a complaint has been made, or would I be better going through a new broker and asking them to contact WTC - the fee for this is 200 plus VAT?

Would welcome any advice. So stressed from my dealings with them.
 
If you haven't already logged a formal complaint and received a final response on that the FSPO can't help you. Even at that, that process would take a month or two. I wouldn't discourage you from logging a compaint though. The Regulators will eventually look at the rising numbers and ask the providers what's going on here. Every regulated entity has to submit the number of complaints they receive to the Central Bank every year.

The Pensions Authority or Central Bank won't help you either.

Not sure what another broker can bring to the transaction. WTW are the scheme administrators and can't really do anything with this until you leave the scheme and it will probably take a month or two to get the leaving service option papers out to you and then another month or two to process the claim form.

I'd say that when the FSPO publish their annual report this year for 2022 there will be a large spike in the cases they had to deal with last year. A trend that is probably going to continue this year.

The service from pension providers has been appaling for a number of years and I've heard all the excuses for not being able to fix it - Covid, staff shortages/recruitment, large spikes in the volumes of new business etc. etc.

It's a constant source of frustration for brokers too who try to provide a good service, as well - day after day of errors, duplications, repeat requests for information that already has been submitted, not reading specific instructions properly, not responding to requests for information within a reasonable length of time.

They've created these 'turnaround' times for processing business that keep being pushed out and are acceptable to no one other than the pension companies who can't get on top of the business or ahead of it when they know that there's going to be a spike in business at certain times of the year.

It's just appalling service, where competition is in the 'who can be the least worst' at it. Not sure management teams know how much brand damage their doing to themselves and to the industry as a whole.


Gerard

www.prsa.ie
 
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Thanks for your reply, GSheehy.

Is it WTW I need to log the complaint with? It's just that they never answer the phone to find out who in the company to log a complaint with. In all the times I rang over 6 months, maybe about 15 times, the Receptionist only answered twice, and then managed to cut me off whilst transferring me and I had to wait another 50 minutes on hold to speak to her again. It's shocking!!

The public sector is not much better. I worked in various HSE jobs over 17 years part time. It took 3 x years of letters to get my pension sorted accurately, with several miscalculations, and again it was only when I threatened Ombudsman, that they answered my letters and got it sorted. So much time and stress for me though!
 
Yes, WTW.

Send it by email / post and be specific regarding what the complaint is about. If, you can't log it by phone.
 
I would also copy any correspondence like this to the Central Bank which regulates WTW.

The Ombudsman won't worry them much. But they would not like a visit from the Central Bank.

The Central Bank will refer you to the Ombudsman, but if a few clients of WTW complain, then the CB will engage with them to find out what is going wrong.

Brendan
 
When making your complaint to WTW specify that you are making your complaint under their IDR (internal disputes resolution) process.
It is only after an IDR complaint has not been satisfactorily resolved that your complaint can be made to the Ombudsman.
 
Could you turn up in reception and politely but firmly insist to see someone ? - and documenting it live on as many social media channels as you can...
 
Thanks all for your replies. Latest update.

After following the advice here, I decided to ring WTW reception, but as usual no reply, just a mailbox - I left a message re ringing me back and letting me know who their complaints officer is or who I address the complaint to. I mentioned that I was going, as suggested here, to copy my complaint to the central bank. The number I used for contacting their reception, was the only telephone number on the WTW website. There were no other email addresses or any mention of a complaints department on their website.

Well, at about 4 pm this evening, I got a call from a reasonably helpful guy, who said that the number I had used to contact reception, which was on the WTW website, was actually his office number - that is, he is an employee if WTW, but he is not the receptionist. He said he gets several calls a week to his WTW telephone number looking for WTW reception! He said he sympathised with my issues about slowness of service as he was aware of these issues, and stated that some new pensions directive had come out last year which had doubled the workload of all pensions staff and had caused staff burnout and recruitment issues. I pointed out that the bad reviews of WTW predated this new pension directive. He stated that he did not know who handled complaints in WTW or even if they had a complaints' department! He agreed to contact the person I was dealing with in WTW and share my concerns with her and copy me on the email, which he did, though the person I have been dealing with in WTW, when I have actually been able to contact them, has been aware of my concerns, but nothing changed, and I still had to up the ante and threaten Ombudsman to get responses.
 
Mothergoose said:
It's just that they never answer the phone to find out who in the company to log a complaint with.
Click to expand...
Here is what you do:
  1. Write them a letter outlining your attempts to make contact (attach emails) and have it sent it by registered post. (Keep a scanned copy of all of this);
  2. If you don't get a reply within two week send a copy of the first letter marked "personal" to the CEO of the pension provider - you will find his/her name usually on google. In this second letter make it clear that you are making a complaint, and if you don't receive an adequate response you will take it to the Financial Services and Pension Ombudsman (FPSO);
  3. If this doesn't prompt a response take it to the FPSO
Make sure to document everything above. Physical letters are far more effective in making organisations pay attention than emails or phone calls do.
 
They/You still haven't logged a formal complaint.

This is what they do, throw you a bone and kick the problem down the road until it's not done and you've to log the complaint weeks/months after it should have been done. It's a game with some of them, a numbers game, where they're banking on customer not pursuing the complaint to FSPO level. Or even having to record it as a formal compliant.

Mothergoose said:
some new pensions directive had come out last year which had doubled the workload of all pensions staff and had caused staff burnout and recruitment issues.
Click to expand...

This 'Blame the Pensions Authority' is nonsense. The PA flagged, well in advance, what was going to happen to one person schemes but the pension providers continued to sell large quantities them knowing that it was going to pile chaos on to their administrative/service nightmare. In 3 months time they'll be telling us that their service is now worse again because they have had to switch/transfer those scheme to Master Trust type plan. And, that assumes that it will run smoothly.

I have sympathy with the front-line staff. You can tell when they answer the phone that morale is pretty low as they try to cover for those who are making the decisions.

I might do a separate post on the chaos that has existed on pension service for a long time now and how it spilled over into savings, investment contracts as well. The management model that exists is no longer for for purpose - large financial rewards for sales, no consequences for absolutely atrocious service to all customers.


Gerard

www.prsa.ie
 
Thanks to all of you for your replies.

The person who rang me after I left a message saying that they weren't the complaints person but would try and contact the person who was dealing with my early retirement in WTC - he emailed her and me, and asked her to reply, but no reply received from her. Then I emailed both of them to say I had decided to go ahead and make a formal complaint in writing via registered post and copy same to Central Bank. No reply from either of them.

I have my complaint here ready to go by registered post today. I feel it will be 12 months before I can get my lump sum - I need the money before the summer for moving abroad expenses - but I despair of getting it in any sort of timely manner.
 
Mothergoose said:
Thanks to all of you for your replies. The person who rang me after I left a message saying that they weren't the complaints person but would try and contact the person who was dealing with my early retirement in WTC - he emailed her and me, and asked her to reply, but no reply received from her. Then I emailed both of them to say I had decided to go ahead and make a formal complaint in writing via registered post and copy same to Central Bank. No reply from either of them. I have my complaint here ready to go by registered post today. I feel it will be 12 months before I can get my lump sum - I need the money before the summer for moving abroad expenses - but I despair of getting it in any sort of timely manner.
Click to expand...
Make sure that you have stated that you are complaining under their IDR.
 
Mothergoose said:
Sorry SClass but what is their IDR - what does it stand for?
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It's a legally binding complaint process. You must use this process before the ombudsman can take up your complaint. There is a strict time period allowed for the IDR process. I think it is 3 months. If you have not received a satisfactory resolution in this time period, you can then use the ombudsman's service.
IDR stands for "internal dispute resolution".
If you don't state that your complaint is made under their IDR they are likely to delay any resolution and you will not have an automatic right to use the ombudsman's service.
Just add the following line to your complaint letter.

"I am making this complaint under your IDR procedure."
 
GSheehy said:
The service from pension providers has been appaling for a number of years and I've heard all the excuses for not being able to fix it - Covid, staff shortages/recruitment, large spikes in the volumes of new business etc. etc.

It's a constant source of frustration for brokers too who try to provide a good service, as well - day after day of errors, duplications, repeat requests for information that already has been submitted, not reading specific instructions properly, not responding to requests for information within a reasonable length of time.

They've created these 'turnaround' times for processing business that keep being pushed out and are acceptable to no one other than the pension companies who can't get on top of the business or ahead of it when they know that there's going to be a spike in business at certain times of the year.

It's just appalling service, where competition is in the 'who can be the least worst' at it. Not sure management teams know how much brand damage their doing to themselves and to the industry as a whole.


Gerard

www.prsa.ie
Click to expand...
I agree Ger. In my 25 years in the industry I don't think I have seen so many life companies have such appalling service at once. What used to take days is now taking months. And a lot of the time it's wrong. I should start billing them for the wasted time in just chasing them up.

OP, as Ger said, you can't just go to the Ombudsman, you have to lodge a complaint first. I had always found WTW to be efficient but the last time I dealt with them, they were very slow and non responsive. You need to find who is dealing with your pension and email/ phone them directly. But if your last contribution hasn't gone in yet, don't expect anything until it has been received and invested. They will then do up your maturity options based on that figure. Don't expect anything beforehand.

Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie
 
Steven Barrett said:
OP, as Ger said, you can't just go to the Ombudsman, you have to lodge a complaint first
Click to expand...
I explained the process very clearly at #15.
It is not enough to mearly make a complaint. It must be done under the IDR and a notice of determination must be received before the ombubsman becomes involved.
You are adding confusion to a situation which was very clear to the OP at #16.
 
I've had a handful of complaints dealt with by the FSPO over the last couple of years. Not once have I used the 'under IDR' terminology when making the initial complaint to the product provider. 'Formal complaint' was enough to get the final letter.

Has something changed recently?

Have providers now, because their service is so terrible and complaints are gone through the roof, now decided that if IDR isn't mentioned don't log it as a formal complaint?

Because if that's the case then the Central Bank should be informed.

Gerard.
 
GSheehy said:
I've had a handful of complaints dealt with by the FSPO over the last couple of years. Not once have I used the 'under IDR' terminology when making the initial complaint to the product provider. 'Formal complaint' was enough to get the final letter.

Has something changed recently?

Have providers now, because their service is so terrible and complaints are gone through the roof, now decided that if IDR isn't mentioned don't log it as a formal complaint?

Because if that's the case then the Central Bank should be informed.

Gerard.
Click to expand...
I don't know if anything has changed.
This process is described on the FSPO website.
If the services of providers are as bad as you are stating, they might not provide a resolution in 3 months. If the IDR is specified at the start of the complaint then the complaint can be immediately escalated to the ombubsman after 3 months.
 
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