Penalty Points, should i appeal?

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Two wrongs don't make a right I'm afraid. The lorry driver who accelerated was guility of the first wrong, but prudent and safe driving in those circumstances would have stated that the person overtaking should have backed off and slowed down and waited for the next opportunity, just as the garda said.

It's harsh I suppose, but correct. I'm not really sure a judge on appeal could see it any differently.
 
So the op checked what was necessary and over took as we all do, the lorry driver acts the maggot, the space they left has been taken, you make a judgement call.
The guard did not like being corrected and looked for another way to make his point..

One more thing, after a broken white, line you get a double broken white line for one or two hundred yards to make you aware of a continious white line ahead.
 
Can make your own mind up depending on the situation that applies in the rules of the road.
You are allowed to overtake on a broken single white line (if safe to do so), if the line becomes solid are you meant to stay on the wrong side of the road?
If the truck was doing 90km he should have been stopped. Trucks are legally required to be restricted to 80km p/hr.
Why didn't you drop down a gear and pass him at 100 ? If road was clear for 100-200m you could have easily passed.
Personally I wouldn't bother appealing, can go against you easily and you would be worse off. Unless you have 10 points and a facing disqualification with the next 2 :(
 
Television you are talking rubbish, by your logic nobody should never overtake (the vehicle driving in front is always going to be unpredictable and never ever predictable), i just cant predict these things but if you can you must be able to see into the future which i guess you can't or you would have been able to answer my question on original post instead of talking nonsense, as i said driving conditions were perfect, i had a chance to overtake a slow moving lorry. What's wrong with that? if i wasn't dealing with an unpredictable lorry driver towing a 40ft cargo container then i probably could have pulled back but would this unpredictable lorry driver have allowed me to, maybe, but probably not so sorry i just took the safer option and didn't take any chance with this maniac and continued to overtake him. Ah hindsight :rolleyes:. My point was that the cop changed his mind as to why i was being pulled over when i pointed out that i definatly didn't and wouldn't overtake on a continous white line,
 
Personally I wouldn't bother appealing, can go against you easily and you would be worse off. Unless you have 10 points and a facing disqualification with the next 2 :([/quote]

I'm due to start a new job in sept and i dont know what they'll think if i have pp's on my licence
 
100% behind you on this one blueblood. You can't always predict what the 'line' will do a few hundred metres ahead of you.

The guard should have used his discretion and given you a dressing down. It's this kind of jobs-worth behaviour which erodes the publics respect for the Gardai. Thats my take on it anyway. Your critics are probably pedestrians with no comprehension of what it means to drive a car.

You screwed up and should have got a tongue lashing but being given points (especially when the Guard agreed that you started your manouver on a broken line) is out of order in this instance
 
I admit the overtaking probably looked bad on my behalf from a distance to the cop.I think another big factor was how vigorously i defended myself untill he finally admitted i hadn't started my overtaking on a continous line, i was just so pi$$ed by what this lorry driver had done and that i was the one getting pulled over:mad:, then he said "you did that twice" as if to say i would have been better off if i'd just agreed the first time.
 
Secondly you are talking rubbish and it seems to me you are just trying to wind up the op.

I am talking rubbish? Why? Constructive opening point!

You judge the op for what seem to me to be fairly reasonable driving decisions.

Reasonable according to you maybe.

and praise the truck driver for what is clearly dangerous driving.

Where did I praise the truck driver?

I think you need to double check the specific rule of the road re overtaking and see if you were technically correct or incorrect. If incorrect you should accept the points. If it's a grey area or you were technically correct, then I would appeal. Good luck.

See thats the point really, the original poster and perhaps you too, should understand the rules of the road before you drive. Not try and retrospectivly look for validation or legality.
 
A policeman will rarely be argued down even if he realizes he's made a mistake.

He'll be hyped up to some extent on adrenalin, essentially confronting someone he's never met before, which can come across as aggression or just unreasonableness.

The Garda who approaches will be the one who thought he saw an offense, usually he'll have another Garda or two back in the car so it looks bad to return and say "made a mistake there, chap made some good points".

If pulled in look intimidated and apologetic. Difficult if you haven't a clue why he's pulled you, say due to a complete mistake, as it makes the self incriminatory answer to "do you know why I stopped you" difficult. Being relaxed because you're sure of your innocence unfortunately is red flag to a bull territory.

There a chance if the Garda thinks he's frightened you that'll be victory enough for him to just issue a warning especially if the case isn't clear cut.

In this case however I wouldn't bother appealing it'll drag out the worry and annoyance by 6+ months, and in the brief few words you're likely to get to explain yourself to the judge it'll be hard to get around the fact that at some point no matter how unavoidably a solid white line was crossed.

If you're thinking of appealing and are unfamiliar with courts I'd recommend you drop in to the courthouse first and have a look at what you're likely to encounter. Let's just say it's a long way from Ally McBeal.
 
Television you are talking rubbish, by your logic nobody should never overtake (the vehicle driving in front is always going to be unpredictable and never ever predictable), i just cant predict these things but if you can you must be able to see into the future which i guess you can't or you would have been able to answer my question on original post instead of talking nonsense,

You should not appeal because you were in the wrong. Take some personal responsibility and see it as a learning experience.

Yes drivers are unpredictable which means there is a responsibility to behave very carefully when driving.


as i said driving conditions were perfect, i had a chance to overtake a slow moving lorry. What's wrong with that?

By your own admission you finished overtaking through continous white lines.
 
A policeman will rarely be argued down even if he realizes he's made a mistake.

He'll be hyped up to some extent on adrenalin, essentially confronting someone he's never met before, which can come across as aggression or just unreasonableness.

The Garda who approaches will be the one who thought he saw an offense, usually he'll have another Garda or two back in the car so it looks bad to return and say "made a mistake there, chap made some good points".

If pulled in look intimidated and apologetic. Difficult if you haven't a clue why he's pulled you, say due to a complete mistake, as it makes the self incriminatory answer to "do you know why I stopped you" difficult. Being relaxed because you're sure of your innocence unfortunately is red flag to a bull territory.

There a chance if the Garda thinks he's frightened you that'll be victory enough for him to just issue a warning especially if the case isn't clear cut.

In this case however I wouldn't bother appealing it'll drag out the worry and annoyance by 6+ months, and in the brief few words you're likely to get to explain yourself to the judge it'll be hard to get around the fact that at some point no matter how unavoidably a solid white line was crossed.

If you're thinking of appealing and are unfamiliar with courts I'd recommend you drop in to the courthouse first and have a look at what you're likely to encounter. Let's just say it's a long way from Ally McBeal.

There is a lot of pop psychology here about guards behaviour. Very few guards are out thier trying to intimidate people or get a kick out of frightening people.

it'll be hard to get around the fact that at some point no matter how unavoidably a solid white line was crossed. .

And that is why the guy should not appeal.
 
Television first of all its reckless not wreckless. Secondly you are talking rubbish and it seems to me you are just trying to wind up the op.

You judge the op for what seem to me to be fairly reasonable driving decisions, and praise the truck driver for what is clearly dangerous driving. The truck driver increased his speed deliberately when the op tried to overtake legally, to try to force the op back behind his vehicle. That is disgraceful driving IMO and could easily have caused an accident.

Sounds to me like the garda made a bad call on this one. I think it's wrong that people are not given an opportunity to defend themselves in court without running the risk of getting additional penalty points, but that's the way it is unfortunately.

I think you need to double check the specific rule of the road re overtaking and see if you were technically correct or incorrect. If incorrect you should accept the points. If it's a grey area or you were technically correct, then I would appeal. Good luck.

Kate.

I tend to agree here, especially with the first part.
 
See thats the point really, the original poster and perhaps you too, should understand the rules of the road before you drive. Not try and retrospectivly look for validation or legality.

I understand the rules of the road just fine and i'm sure kate10 dose also but you are missing the point.
I was prevented completing a perfectaly legal maneuver by some idiot who broke the law by speeding up as i was overtaking him, it's not as black and white as you want to make it
 
I agree, it seems that the truck driver was the one who drove incorrectly. Speeding up when someone is overtaking (whether the latter is doing so correctly or not) is extremely dangerous.
 
I understand the rules of the road just fine and i'm sure kate10 dose also but you are missing the point.
I was prevented completing a perfectaly legal maneuver by some idiot who broke the law by speeding up as i was overtaking him, it's not as black and white as you want to make it

Changed my mind actually, go to court, fight it out with the same zelous certainty as you are showing here. Get back to me when the judge give you 4 points.
 
I agree, it seems that the truck driver was the one who drove incorrectly. Speeding up when someone is overtaking (whether the latter is doing so correctly or not) is extremely dangerous.

The truck driver was wrong to speed up. The OP was wrong for what he did. I find it hard to believe that the OP did not see any evidence of the potential for a continous white line ahead.
 
I must say my sympathies are with OP in this situation. There is no doubt that there are many drivers who seem to resent being overtaken and actually accelerate. It has happened to me many times.

If OP had been following this vehicle for some time and it was not a situation where they had just left a restricted speed area i.e. 50 kph, or a sharp bend, where it could be reasonably assumed that the driver in front would accelerate, then OP was indeed caught between a rock and a hard place. Op said, he/she would have been safely back on the correct side of road had the driver in front maintained his existing speed.

I can well see that there could be a problem in braking and pulling back. In the first place OP would probably be on the wrong side of the road for a longer period and secondly most Irish drivers do not believe in the 2 second rule meaning that it could be difficult to drop in behind the other vehicle while following driver (unmarked garda car in this instance unfortunately?) made up his/her mind as to whether to give way or not. Therefore, assuming the road ahead was seen to be clear enough, notwithstanding the continuous white lines the safest option could very well have been to complete the manoeuvre.

Even in the above scenario the OP was technically in the wrong and possibly a reasonable guard might have been prepared to deal with the matter with a warning if the offender appeared trite enough. This may have been the problem, a refusal to accept the fact that he/she was driving illegally on the incorrect side of the road.

Unfortunately I know a certain percentage of guards like to use their power because they can. I have also seen garda cars being driven and parked in ways which would earn lesser mortals penalty points if there were someone to enforce the law on them. BTW I'm not knocking the Gardai just stating facts. I know many gardai, even related to some, who are very decent people but in every walk of life you have the difficult type.

Anyway, having said that, I would advise OP to accept the situation rather than fight it as it would possibly end in additional penalty points. Without a witness to back your version of events it's your word against the guards and you were in the wrong even if through no fault of your own.
 
As much as i think the truck driver was acting like an idiot i think your best to just get the points and be done with it.

I got pulled over for over taking on the inside...yes i know your not suppose to but when you have someone that's doing 70 in the over taking lane ( that would be the fast lane/outside lane as most would call it ) and you have somewhere to be and your still sticking to speed limit you to get tempted to over take on the inside and start shouting at them to pull over as you pass even though you know they cant hear you.

Now i could be wrong in this as i've never know any one to get done for staying in the overtaking lane but i think you should get points for that as well. You do in England. Even when i'm driving in NI if someone over takes they pull in straight away afterwards even if it means have to over take again a few mins later.

You were lucky there wasn't an accident cause who ever was in the worng you would of been to blame. My fella was driving, under the speed limit about 5 car spaces behind someone else, she went over a hill and he lost sight of her for a few seconds. When he saw her again she had slammed on her brakes ( on a continous white line ) so she could turn right to pull into a garden center. He went into her so that was that, and the only reason the guy behind us didn't hit him was he drove into a ditch. What was even more annoying was there was a roundabout a few mins up the road she could of turned around on.
 
The truck driver was wrong to speed up. The OP was wrong for what he did. I find it hard to believe that the OP did not see any evidence of the potential for a continous white line ahead.

Right television at least now you admit what the truck driver did was wrong. Why oh why do you find it hard to believe i did not see any evidenceof the potentiial for a continous white line ahead?, you dont even know me, It became evident when it was too late. With attitudes like yours no wonder people think twice before appealing you've opened my eyes so to speak!

P.s I also have a front seat passanger who witnessed all, but cop reckons i did it twice because i argued with him
 
I also think you you should fight this. The rules of the road state that when you are being overtaken:

What to do when somebody overtakes you

  • Continue at the same pace.
  • Keep as near to the left as is safe to do so.
  • Do not accelerate.
  • Be alert in case the overtaking vehicle suddenly pulls back in front of you.
The guy in the truck should not have sped up & you moved back onto your side of the road as soon as it was safe.
 
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