Is it not enough for this organisation to have their day out on 12th July and be done with it? Many countries have national days and they don't parade around for weeks on end. I was up in NI for a few days last summer, had a nice time, saw Titanic dockyard, Stormont, Giant's Causeway etc. I waited til August though. Its no-go in July.
Orange Order marching season
- Thread starter STEINER
- Start date
Many Countries don't ban marches. Could never understand why nationalists got their knickers in a twist over silly looking people marching down the road. Can't understand why the Orange order feel like they have to a right to knowingly antagonise local communities. Do they welcome tricolour Irish dancers down shankhill on Paddys day? Actually there is still a lot of that place I don't understand!
On a serious side, do these people have any idea what damage they are doing to attracting in investment and jobs? And they moan about the state of the economy.
On a serious side, do these people have any idea what damage they are doing to attracting in investment and jobs? And they moan about the state of the economy.
The parades commission have made great progress in trying to appease both sides during the ridiculous marching season.
As a child I have memories of dreading 12th July (Orange Men) and 13th July (Black Men). The marches would mean we would have to stay indoors all day as there was always rioting in a neighbouring area due to thousands of loyalists, who descended on the area from all over Northern Ireland, insisting on marching right through the middle of a nationalist area. Back in those terrible days, they were allowed to do it and were in fact facilitated and protected by the police and British army who flanked both sides of their chosen parade route and quelled any nationalist protest with violence.
You only have to listen to biggoted idiots like Edwin Poots to understand how polarised both sides are. The loyalist brick on the head will hopefully give him something to think about.
If they want to march around their own loyalist areas then that's their perogative and I say let them at it, but they should be prevented from marching through nationalist areas as the only reason for doing so is to deliberately seek to increase tension and to antagonise the nationalist community.
As a child I have memories of dreading 12th July (Orange Men) and 13th July (Black Men). The marches would mean we would have to stay indoors all day as there was always rioting in a neighbouring area due to thousands of loyalists, who descended on the area from all over Northern Ireland, insisting on marching right through the middle of a nationalist area. Back in those terrible days, they were allowed to do it and were in fact facilitated and protected by the police and British army who flanked both sides of their chosen parade route and quelled any nationalist protest with violence.
You only have to listen to biggoted idiots like Edwin Poots to understand how polarised both sides are. The loyalist brick on the head will hopefully give him something to think about.
If they want to march around their own loyalist areas then that's their perogative and I say let them at it, but they should be prevented from marching through nationalist areas as the only reason for doing so is to deliberately seek to increase tension and to antagonise the nationalist community.
+1
During the days of the tensions at Garvaghy Road, my reaction was that the locals were looking to be offended by the Orange march. Why stand at the side of the road looking for confrontation when you could do something else somewhere else ?
That said, this whole issue is one where being rational is not welcome
!+1
During the days of the tensions at Garvaghy Road, my reaction was that the locals were looking to be offended by the Orange march. Why stand at the side of the road looking for confrontation when you could do something else somewhere else ?
That said, this whole issue is one where being rational is not welcome
You clearly don't understand and you're not alone. I've been asked many times whilst living abroad what it's all about, and it is difficult understand unless you've lived there, experienced the secretarian hatred or studied the history of the confilict.
I am by no means a staunch nationalist and have no time for Sinn Fein / IRA, but these marches are seen as secretarian, triumphalist and are all about loyalists exerting their supremacy over the nationalist population.
These marches have a very, very violent history and symbolic importance and when they are forced into nationalist areas, it creates havoc.
terrontress
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The thing is, there are other marchers from the nationalist side who wear green sashes and play music that sounds identical. These often walk in areas which are majority protestant but don't get the same level of protest.
If it is legal to march on the public road in the first place then I don't see why it should be illegal to march on any given road. Nobody owns the roads and the residents in any area should not be allowed to influence who can carry out legal activity of a given road.
In saying that, my preference would be to ban the lot. Orange and green. No more marching, reserve the roads for people to drive along.
What's laughable about a lot of this disorder is that people travel from miles away to be offended. They don't even live in the impacted areas. There is a man from England who has just arrived in the past few weeks to Northern Ireland and has been charged with rioting. I am sure the plight of the Orangemen didn't worry him last year. And a few years ago a man travelled from Barcelona to throw a breezeblock on to the head of a female police officer in protest at the parade going ahead.
The truth is that everyone loves it. The loyalists love a scrap, the republicans love a scrap, the police love a scrap and some overtime, the politicians love the exposure, the journalists love having something to write about. It is the tax and rate payers, hard working people, who pick up the tab though.
If it is legal to march on the public road in the first place then I don't see why it should be illegal to march on any given road. Nobody owns the roads and the residents in any area should not be allowed to influence who can carry out legal activity of a given road.
In saying that, my preference would be to ban the lot. Orange and green. No more marching, reserve the roads for people to drive along.
What's laughable about a lot of this disorder is that people travel from miles away to be offended. They don't even live in the impacted areas. There is a man from England who has just arrived in the past few weeks to Northern Ireland and has been charged with rioting. I am sure the plight of the Orangemen didn't worry him last year. And a few years ago a man travelled from Barcelona to throw a breezeblock on to the head of a female police officer in protest at the parade going ahead.
The truth is that everyone loves it. The loyalists love a scrap, the republicans love a scrap, the police love a scrap and some overtime, the politicians love the exposure, the journalists love having something to write about. It is the tax and rate payers, hard working people, who pick up the tab though.
Bill Struth
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If it was the simple matter of a band marching along in silly costume playing happy music then of course no one would have a problem.
But sure you all know that anyway. Much easier to sit from a distance and say 'they're both as bad as each other'.
But sure you all know that anyway. Much easier to sit from a distance and say 'they're both as bad as each other'.
Bill Struth
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Any examples?
T McGibney
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... Edwin Poots .... The loyalist brick on the head will hopefully give him something to think about.
It wasn't Edwin Poots who got hit with the brick. I think you should withdraw your comment.
If it was the simple matter of a band marching along in silly costume playing happy music then of course no one would have a problem.
But sure you all know that anyway. Much easier to sit from a distance and say 'they're both as bad as each other'.
Of course they would have a problem with it. A group of Protestant children couldn't march down the falls road playing baa baa black sheep without police protection. The same goes the other way as well.
Thanks for pointing that out, it was Nigel Dodds.
Bill Struth
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Schoolchildren being attacked? Just like at Holy Cross? Which actually happened, attacks which were carried out by orangemen and their supporters, and isn't one of your made up little fantasies?
Ah yeah, they're just as bad as each other alright.
terrontress
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Bill Struth
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Are you really comparing the only 'contentious' AOH march, that has one single band and 50 participants, with what the OO get up to every year?
terrontress
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Yes.
As long as there are Catholic/Nationalist areas and Protestant/Loyalist areas there will be problems.
There is no comparison between the Orange Order parades (and others) and St. Patricks day parades but if banning all of them sorted things out then that's the best option.
I've always though that the best thing the Nationalists could do is join in; march behind them with tiny bowler hats, big clown shoes and massive orange sashes.
The Orange order is an organisation with bigotry, supremacy and hatred at its core. It was founded on these principles and it hasn't changed in over a hundred years. It is done more damage to the Unionist community in Northern Ireland than the IRA ever could because it traps Unionism/Loyalism in the past and defines it in terms of that it isn't, not what it is.
There is no comparison between the Orange Order parades (and others) and St. Patricks day parades but if banning all of them sorted things out then that's the best option.
I've always though that the best thing the Nationalists could do is join in; march behind them with tiny bowler hats, big clown shoes and massive orange sashes.
The Orange order is an organisation with bigotry, supremacy and hatred at its core. It was founded on these principles and it hasn't changed in over a hundred years. It is done more damage to the Unionist community in Northern Ireland than the IRA ever could because it traps Unionism/Loyalism in the past and defines it in terms of that it isn't, not what it is.
I like the bit about marching behind them with big clowns shoes
Very well put Purple.
Joining in is not an option, it would be a very dangerous thing to do and would provoke a violent reaction.
It would be great if they just had a Northern Ireland National Day, maybe in August, which would be inclusive and acceptable to all the citizens of the north. Most people there just want to get on with their lives and live in peace with their neighbours, but there is a minority on both sides who are hell bent on keeping the conflict going.
The_Banker
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They could do with some educate together schools up there rather than schools which are Protestant/Catholic...
The problems wont be solved in this generation but the resolutions will have to start now so that in 30/40 years time this wont still be happening.
Also, the councils up there cant assign houses or people to areas along Catholic/Protestant lines. That only puts more people into the arms of those running the estates, the thugs who claim to be 'protecting' the people of whatever enclave.
I know this cant happen over night but the seeds have to be planted now.
The problems wont be solved in this generation but the resolutions will have to start now so that in 30/40 years time this wont still be happening.
Also, the councils up there cant assign houses or people to areas along Catholic/Protestant lines. That only puts more people into the arms of those running the estates, the thugs who claim to be 'protecting' the people of whatever enclave.
I know this cant happen over night but the seeds have to be planted now.
I agree completely. The Catholic Church opposes mixed schooling. It is as much to blame for the continuing sectarianism as the Orange Order.