New controls on landlords & rental properties

Agree

Many landlords have long since paid for their properties (or paying minimal mortgages) so they're not relying on rent rises to sustain any mortgage.While I tend to think that governments should stay out of the market place generally I think housing should be an exception as its such a basic need.If governments are expected to stay out of the property market then that should also mean removing interest relief and tax incentives.
I think if Bacons proposals had been given more time they would have helped FTBs.I still find it hard to figure out why its wrong to tip the scales towards helping those who want to buy a home.Invetors don't build houses,they only buy into the market.Builders and estate agents tried to say that fewer houses were built last year because of Bacon but that was patently false.
 
Rent

I am an Accountant, I own my own house, I don't own a second house so I have no rental Income.

A couple of points If I may:
1) I have made this point before , The country doesn't begin and end in Dublin.
2)There appears to be a" housing crises" in Dublin with substancial rents etc. I live and work in Tipperary, and yes I have clients who are Landlords. The average rent per 2/3 bed house would vary from £100-£120 per week. The rent in many cases does not cover the mortgage repayments and they have to dip into their own pockets for the balance.

3)These rented houses are often peoples pension policy.

4) Being a landlord is the same as being in any other business and the same reliefs should apply.
5) Likewise the same rights should apply.As to when they want to sell etc
6) The landlord doesn't owe anyone a foof over their head, the state is obliged to stop people from being homeless the landlord is not- its business.

7) Down this part of the country there was a slow down in the building of houses due to Bacon, maybe not in Dublin but my first point apply's there.
8) Higher rents meen less ability to save. Lower tax relief meens the landlord needs to increase rents. Therefore harder to buy first house. Its basic economics.
 
Re: Agree

Well said jem.

Bearish, allowing landlords and others to deduct interest and other costs from their gross income before expenses is not a "tax relief" - it is a fundamental principle of all tax systems in the developed world that taxpayers are taxed on their net income <!--EZCODE BOLD START--> after<!--EZCODE BOLD END--> associated allowable expenses and not on their turnover.

You could argue, depending on your ideology, that tax reliefs and deductions “represent a transfer of wealth, via the taxation system” from taxpayers to property investors and entrepreneurs, or indeed that businesses should be taxed more heavily than they are. However, it is true that much of Ireland's economic success in recent years has been based on rewarding and incentivizing risk-taking, enterprise and capital investment via a low-tax regime. The result is an unprecedented economic boom and a huge increase in employment.

Whether you like it or not, the same economic principles apply to the housing market. If a govt makes it attractive for investors to invest, (and for builders to build) then the stock of housing will increase and you will have enough accommodation for everyone. In the long term this will mean meaningful competition in the rental market with a fair rent for the tenant, a decent (but not obscene) profit for the landlord and a roof over everyone's head.

If you discourage investors from investing, you will get a worsened shortage of properties, higher prices in the form of rents, and a reduced pool of landlords operating an effective cartel and enjoying obscene profits. New money for investment will go elsewhere - most likely into foreign property or stockmarkets. This has already happened to an extent during the period of the Bacon experiment and there is no evidence to show that the same thing wouldn’t happen again if Bacon or more extreme measures were introduced. You talk of people’s disposable incomes having peaked. Well that may be true in some sectors, but your claim doesn’t tally with the current economic statistics regarding wage increases, particularly in the services sector and possible industrial unrest (re, e.g. benchmarking) imminent in other sectors.

It is <!--EZCODE BOLD START--> not<!--EZCODE BOLD END--> scaremongering to say that many tenants would face eviction if a number of landlords hit financial difficulty and were forced to put their property up for sale. No first-time buyer or other owner-occupier would buy a property unless vacant possession were available. Where will the tenants go? How many long-term vacant rental properties are there in Dublin?

Private-sector tenants would be in a far safer position if the govt were building massive amounts of state housing, to replace the current dependence on private landlords, (which IMHO is the way forward) but in the current public finances climate, that seems unlikely to happen. It would be a disastrous folly to mess around so drastically with the housing market without such a backup being available for these people.

By the way, I have no quibble with your arguments for better security of tenure for tenants. However, I do think it’s a bit much for you to lecture me at length about allegations of hidden vested interests, given that you haven’t revealed your identity and circumstances on AAM while I have. No matter what you might like to believe, I have no interest in seeing the current rent and house price spirals continue.
 
Property investment as a business

Other countries have rent control because they believe that people have a right to affordable housing and that property investment should not be treated as a normal business,obtaining tax reliefs,incentives etc.Rents are controlled depending on location,age of house and inflation.People still make money from inseting in property but don't expect to have their complete mortage paid for by rental income.
Its said that in investors were taken out of the market then there would be a lack of properties to rent but why should this happen?.We live in a capitalist society where supply is extricably linked to demand.If theres a demand for housing and builders can make money from supplying it then why wouldn't they?.The problem last year was that the government gave up on Bacon far too early.
 
Re: Property investment as a business

Hi Richard I would agree that
<!--EZCODE BOLD START--> "people have a right to affordable housing"<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->

However it is not up to landlords to provide it. Its the states duty. The only way to reduce rents etc is to have more properties available whether in the private sector or public. Therefore supply and demand will dictate that rents fall. It does not help the situation is any way to reduce the numbers of rented properties by way of decreasing the interest relief etc. all that does is reduce supply of rented accomodation and therefore increase rents. The reason there would be less properties to rent is the fact that it would cost more for landlords to service the loans thereon, therefore either they would increase rents accordinly or not purchase in the first place. In fact both happened.

<!--EZCODE BOLD START--> "If theres a demand for housing and builders can make money from supplying it then why wouldn't they?."<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->

Because there maybe a demand for housing - paticularly in "Little Ireland"(Dublin) however can those who want housing afford it? Or do house prices need to fall dramatically in order to help them afford a house? I don't think that the majority of people want this to happen. The only solution to this malise is increased state housing and increased levels of rented property. More of both of these will infact reduce the rents being paid in "Little Ireland" and increase the possibility of first time buyers being able to afford to purchase.
 
alternative view

"people have a right to affordable housing

However it is not up to landlords to provide it. Its the states duty."

True but equally its not the states duty to help landlords make money from property investment by providing interest relief.
 
Re: Property investment as a business

...nor IMHO is it the state's duty to penalise landlords by subjecting their earnings to a harsher tax regime than that applied on every other business person in the country.
 
tenancy

sadly, now landlords will only give 6 month tenancies, what choice will they have. It will cost more. All the politicians will be happy because all the solicitors etc will make money. The tenants will pay for it and have less tenure. It wont work and then they'll change it in a couple of years. Every tenant I've had has been for about three years. Yet , no matter how good, all have forfeited the last months rent for the deposit, which after , three years was always less, and I have always let it go. Most landlords now charge two months rent as deposit. I will start that with my next tenant, sadly.
 
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