Neighbour needs our fence moved to get P.P.

[stefg]

Hi odyssey06,

That's a good suggestion and I'll discuss it with them and see what their engineer says. However I have seen the response from the planning office and it does suggest that the fence needs to be moved with our permission.

 

[flowerman]

flowerman, I think your post is way off the mark. Sure the neighbours are keen to get us to agree but there is no blackmail going on and how you gathered that from the thread I don't know.

Maybe I wasn't clear earlier but as Vanilla commented the neighbours do not gain any land as the fence would just retreat from the road so there is no suggestion of a land grab.

We'll chat to the neighbours over the weekend and come to an agreement.

Well is your neighbour thinking of you when they are wanting you to shorten or move back your boundary fence or hedge??
I wonder will they be nice neighbours to you if you say No??

I replied to what you posted.You asked what peoples thoughts were on the matter.I gave you mine.If you dont like that then ok fair enough,but thats what free speech and free thought is all about.

There is no way in hell that I would move back my boundary fence or hedge just to please a neighbour and their building project.I would not like to loose my own privacy or have my garden perimeter shortened just to please a neighbour and what they want to build.

If you want to,then arrange for a meeting in the CC planning department with a planning officer,a solicitor,yourself and your neighbour all sat down at a table together and get the planning and legal facts sorted 1st and also know what you are letting yourself in for with regards to the future.
Thats what you should do before you agree to anything that your neighbour wants.

From what you have posted,I think your neighbour is taking complete advantage of your good nature and they want to use you to their own favour by making you sacrifice your fence,hedge and your privacy.


Please also remember that with regards building and renovation work,what looks nice on paper and a planning application can turn into an eyesore in the real world.And you then have to live with it for the rest of your life.

Also be mindfull of how any new shadows or blocking of sunlight from this development work will affect your right to light,your own garden and plants in the future.Because once its done it cant be reversed.

Good luck with it anyway.

 

[Vanilla]

I honestly don't see any need to consult a solicitor here- there is no new occupation or possession of your property by a neighbour. I do think it is worthwhile having a chat with whatever engineer is going to do the planning application for your garage just to see if there will be some quid pro quo needed for your own application or if the shortening of the fence could possibly make some difference. But after that, why not look after your neighbours.

 

[peno]

You could always move it so the neighbours get their planning person. Then move it back after averything has been completed - or would there be a rule that would you be prevented from doing that?? Is there any planning permission needed at your end to do whatever you like with the fence after the neighbours complete the build??

 

[stefg]

All sorted now, we had a friendly discussion about what's involved and have an agreement. The move of the fence is just that, no change to boundaries and the letter was updated to note that, and when the fence is to be moved the neighbour will take responsibility for it. Thanks to everyone for them comments, I'm happy this has come to an acceptable conclusion without any unnecessary complications.

 

[stefg]

Well is your neighbour thinking of you when they are wanting you to shorten or move back your boundary fence or hedge??
I wonder will they be nice neighbours to you if you say No??

I replied to what you posted.You asked what peoples thoughts were on the matter.I gave you mine.If you dont like that then ok fair enough,but thats what free speech and free thought is all about.

The neighbours have been friendly to us even before this planning was ever submitted so there are no ulterior motives by being nice to us.

You are correct I asked for peoples' opinions about the matter and you gave yours which is appreciated, however, I am also entitled to express that I think your opinion was inaccurate and unnecessarily confrontational. Your posts talked about emotional blackmail and a land grab being involved but nowhere in my explanation of the situation was this suggested. So it's not a matter of me not liking your opinion, it's just that I think it was not relevant to the situation presented.

 

[Leo]

Also be mindfull of how any new shadows or blocking of sunlight from this development work will affect your right to light,your own garden and plants in the future.

There is no right to light in Ireland.

 

[flowerman]

The neighbours have been friendly to us even before this planning was ever submitted so there are no ulterior motives by being nice to us.

You are correct I asked for peoples' opinions about the matter and you gave yours which is appreciated, however, I am also entitled to express that I think your opinion was inaccurate and unnecessarily confrontational. Your posts talked about emotional blackmail and a land grab being involved but nowhere in my explanation of the situation was this suggested. So it's not a matter of me not liking your opinion, it's just that I think it was not relevant to the situation presented.

You had to move "your fence" for a neighbour to do their buidling project.You are at a loss when it comes to privacy.Maybe you are happy with that but I know wouldnt be.

I wonder when you are doing your own building work,would your neighbour be so quick move his wall or fence to accomadate you,if needs be??


Anyway you have it sorted and you are happy for now,so thats all that matters.

Best of luck and keep a close eye on your neighbours build and make sure that he/she doesnt do anything outside his/her planning permission.

 

[flowerman]

There is no right to light in Ireland.

My point being that a building or development can and will create long shadows accross other properties or land if its not designed properly or mindfully of neighbouring land.It will block out sunlight too.And people can object to planning permission (20 euro fee) on this basis if they see that their light and sunlight will be blocked out.

Our architect was very mindfull of this when he was designing our new build and with regards our neighbours land and gardens.A survey was done to see where the sunlight was at various times during the day and how any possible shadows would affect the neighbouring land in the morning time and in the evening times.

We sat down with our neighbour and showed all the information and the actual plans to them,they were happy with it all.Our planning application was passed 1st time with in 7 weeks.
But when we built our house and walls then the neighbour started complaining that our build was too big and too high.Even though we were that mindfull of her and her family from the word go.There is no shadowing of our property onto her land at all yet our neighbour complained alot and still does too.

 

[daithi28]

In essence, you are giving consent for a portion of your fence/hedge etc to be relocated to improve the sightline for your neighbour, for traffic safety purposes. This sightline must be maintained in perpetuity.

Please check with the Planning Office whether they are looking for a 'letter of consent' from you to your neighbour to relocate the fence or whether a legal agreement is being sought. Planning Authorities differ in this matter. Some are happy with a letter of consent, but it ain't worth the paper it's written on if the sightline isn't maintained.

Here for an example is a portion of a Additional Information request for a development which is in the same situation as your neighbour. In this case it was a legal agreement being sought;

(First bit is requesting revised sightlines to comply with Council policy). "If revised drawings should indicate that works are required to lands adjacent to the proposed entrance to provide the minimum sightline requirements, evidence of a legal right to carry out such works should be sought from the applicant. The applicant should be requested to submit a formal legal agreement together with a map showing the extent of the lands so affected outside the site boundary and detailing the works required to comply with the visibility splay and drainage provision together with an undertaking from the landowner’s solicitor that the agreement will be entered as a burden against the title of the land".

 

[flowerman]

In essence, you are giving consent for a portion of your fence/hedge etc to be relocated to improve the sightline for your neighbour, for traffic safety purposes. This sightline must be maintained in perpetuity.

Please check with the Planning Office whether they are looking for a 'letter of consent' from you to your neighbour to relocate the fence or whether a legal agreement is being sought. Planning Authorities differ in this matter. Some are happy with a letter of consent, but it ain't worth the paper it's written on if the sightline isn't maintained.

Here for an example is a portion of a Additional Information request for a development which is in the same situation as your neighbour. In this case it was a legal agreement being sought;

(First bit is requesting revised sightlines to comply with Council policy). "If revised drawings should indicate that works are required to lands adjacent to the proposed entrance to provide the minimum sightline requirements, evidence of a legal right to carry out such works should be sought from the applicant. The applicant should be requested to submit a formal legal agreement together with a map showing the extent of the lands so affected outside the site boundary and detailing the works required to comply with the visibility splay and drainage provision together with an undertaking from the landowner’s solicitor that the agreement will be entered as a burden against the title of the land".

Great post.
Hense the need for a meeting with all parties involved,a planning officer and a solictior as mentioned by myself and others.Yet other people seem ignore the idea of a solicitor/legal advice.

 

[Leo]

My point being that a building or development can and will create long shadows accross other properties or land if its not designed properly or mindfully of neighbouring land.It will block out sunlight too.And people can object to planning permission (20 euro fee) on this basis if they see that their light and sunlight will be blocked out.

That's different than advising someone to guard a non-existent right. This thread is about the boundary and entrance sight lines. Let's stick to that and not complicate things further.

 

[monagt]

Great post.
Hense the need for a meeting with all parties involved,a planning officer and a solictior as mentioned by myself and others.Yet other people seem ignore the idea of a solicitor/legal advice.

Don't see a right as non existent, you must be careful, would agree with Flowerman.
+ 1

 

[stefg]

In essence, you are giving consent for a portion of your fence/hedge etc to be relocated to improve the sightline for your neighbour, for traffic safety purposes. This sightline must be maintained in perpetuity.

Please check with the Planning Office whether they are looking for a 'letter of consent' from you to your neighbour to relocate the fence or whether a legal agreement is being sought. Planning Authorities differ in this matter. Some are happy with a letter of consent, but it ain't worth the paper it's written on if the sightline isn't maintained.

The planners have requested a letter of agreement for the fence to be moved, no mention of legal agreement.

 

[Seagull]

You could always leave a low hedge or fence in place that would still show the boundary line, but would not be a visual obstruction.

 

[stefg]

You could always leave a low hedge or fence in place that would still show the boundary line, but would not be a visual obstruction.

This is something we are looking i.e. lower the existing hedge at the front and put a higher one behind the fence to keep the same level of shelter from the road.