Motor Motor Claim Pre Accident Valuation Dispute

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murphyk81

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Hi, I was rear-ended before Xmas and my Car was deemed to be a write-off following an assessment by the Insurance Company. The Insurance Co. then sent out a letter with a Pre- Accident valuation of €15000 and they got an offer on the salvage of €5000 and requested I sell it as a matter of urgency as they would not be liable for any storage costs, which I did, there offer was the balance of €10000 following the sale of the salvage.
I rejected there offer as similar cars to mine (same year, engine size, condition, spec) are for sale on the internet in Main dealers for between €18000 to €19000. They are refusing to revise there offer despite me providing numerous examples from the internet, I have requested that they provide examples from the internet of similar cars to show how they valued my car but they refuse to do so. I had assumed I was entitled to replace my car like for like in this situation, however the Insurance company say I am only entitled to the market valuation they have provided which will not be enough to buy a like for like replacement. Has anybody had similar experiences? Is the next step the Financial Ombudsman?
 
correct. you are only entitled to the market value of the vehicle. Anyone selling on internet listing a price of 18k is probably likely to cut a deal close enough to 15k for cash. Have you actually tried engaging with any sellers. Normally if you can show them that you cannot get a similar car for that value they will improve their offer. But they obviously have similar cars found otherwise they wouldnt have come to that conclusion.

Next step is the complaints officer at the insurance company and arbitration. Not the Ombudsman.
 
Thanks Pete.There only 3 cars for sale close to mine in the country at the moment. I phoned 2 main dealers (3rd car private sale) and they will give cash discounts of €500 and no more that would make it €17500 to replace my car with these lower spec versions. The motor assessor assigned to the claim is from a U.K company, he contacted me last week and asked why would he increase his PAV of €15000 when he could see the same spec car with half the mileage available for €15999. I asked for the copy of the advert for this car but he refused to send it to me, I then asked what dealer it was at and he gave me a name. I checked car zone and no such advert existed so I then checked the dealers website and the only car they had available that matched the price and mileage the assessor mentioned was a Hyundai ix20 (my car was a ix35)! I have also engaged an independent assessor at my own cost he's valued it at €17000. However the insurance co. has said they will not pay out on this valuation they will only take it into consider if they decide to revise there PAV.
 
If you can show you cannot get it for that price then they will increase the valuation. The loss adjuster would normally be quite happy to show where he has found cheaper models so I'd keep pushing him on that or just contact the actual claims handler in the insurance company and tell them the issue and mention you intend to make a complaint. Its unusual an insurer would engage a UK loss adjusting firm when we have plenty here. Is a lloyds based underwriter?
 
I think at this stage, you need to be firm with the insurance company and assessor. Print off 3 vehicles for sale from the internet, similar mileage etc. Make sure they are private sales (As they will argue that they are not obliged to cover a sales mans commission). Seek an average price of the three vehicles. Tell them you are being reasonable about this and if they do not respond with the appropriate offer, you will be going to a solicitor within X amount of days. This is usually enough to get them to move. If they don't, go to a solicitor. The solicitor won't have much of a problem getting the average price (they will also put in for hire car and missed work expenses if you are out of pocket + their own expenses, thus costing the insurance company a lot more).
 
The use of this U.K based claims management/valuation company is common place now I am told, there remit is cost saving by whatever means necessary, hence the deliberate attempt in my opinion to pull the wool over my eyes, outlined in my second post! They contacted me again this morning with an improved offer of €15500 and told me it was the final offer take it or leave it. I demanded to see an example from the internet and they provided a same year/spec car from Donedeal with nearly double the mileage of mine, as their comparison. I rejected the offer immediately based on the mileage difference. @peteb I'm not sure re: the Lloyds Underwriter question, the insurance co. I am dealing with, is a major insurer in the Irish market...A*****z. @Jimbobp yes my next steps are exactly what you have said. Thanks
 
I just wanted to post an update to this, now that my claim is finalised, so I can share some lessons I learned along the way through out the claims process with people that might find themselves in a similar situation.

(1) If you are involved in a similar accident as mine (details outlined above), where it was not your fault and your car has been deemed a write off by the Insurance Company, it might be tempting to just deal direct with the other parties insurance company, as I was ill advised to do. The Pro's to doing this are you won't have to initially pay out your excess ( as you would if you dealt with your own insurance co., although you will eventually be reimbursed when liability is established), also your no claims bonus will not be at risk (again if you deal through your own insurance co. your no claims will be effected until liability is fully established).
The Cons to dealing directly with the other parties insurance co. are this; (which ended up being an expensive lesson for me) the other parties Insurance co. will offer you a lower than book value for your car, they will use any means necessary to argue that it was not worth either the book value or the market value, in my case for example they asked for the car's service history and if it is not 100% complete with Main dealer Stamps they will say that is the reason for the lower valuation, they also said because the car was a U.K import it contributed to it being worth less. In my naivety when this happened I thought firstly I will pay for an independent valuation and then get my solicitor to fight the case, as I thought that there must be regulation/laws protecting me here, however the other parties insurance co. would not acknowledge or take into account any supporting evidence I supplied to them for a higher PAV valuation.
I then asked my solicitor to take the PAV dispute through to the Financial Ombudsman, but as it turns out the Financial Ombudsman will not intervene in disputes between an individual and the third parties insurer, they only mediate in disputes between individuals and there own Insurers where a contract is in place, due to Data protection issues. Insurance Co. know this and take full advantage of the lack of regulation. Therefore as I learned you have no protection whatsoever if choose to deal direct with the other parties insurer, and will have no choice whatsoever but to accept what ever low ball offer they put forward.

(2) When it comes your car i.e. the salvage, the Insurance Co. (either your own or the other parties whoever you choose to deal through) will appoint a motor assessor from a third party company to inspect your car, agree an estimate with the body shop, and if it turns out that your car is beyond economical repair and deemed to be an insurance write off (CAT A to CAT D), the motor assessor will determine the PAV ( Pre-Accident value of your Car), he will also obtain offers on the salvage from Salvage agents and then the Insurance Co. will send you the contact details of the Salvage agent that has made the highest bid. The Insurance Co. will say in there letter to you that you should dispose of the salvage as a matter of urgency, as now a bid has been made by 'Salvage Agent X' and they will not be liable for storage charges past a reasonable amount of time.
In my case the Salvage Agent that made the highest bid turned out to be from the other side of the country and also the offer seemed on the low side, out of curiosity I took some photos of my car and put together an email containing the photos and the full spec of my car, I then phoned about 7 Salvage agents (I found details of Salvage Agents on the Internet in the Leinster area) these agents were all within a 50 mile radius of where I live, the car was stored, and the Motor assessor was based. I firstly asked the Salvage Agents if they had already been offered the salvage previously, none of them had been, I then asked them if they were interested in buying the salvage, which they all were. I sent them all the email with Photos and asked them to respond with any offers, all 7 Salvage Agents replied and offered substantially more than the highest bid obtained by the Motor Assessor.
I found this to be worrying, and the only conclusion I could come to is that the Motor Assessor appointed by the Insurance Co. did not have mine or the Insurance Co. best interests at heart when trying to sell the Salvage.

I hope this information helps someone else avoid the mistakes I made, so that they get a fair settlement from there Insurance Co.
 
Thanks for the update.
Surely a low salvage value can be to your advantage should you decide to buy back the car and repair it.
I know two of my friends who have done this and therefore certainly would not have looking for higher salvage quotes.
 
SparkRite said:
Thanks for the update.
Surely a low salvage value can be to your advantage should you decide to buy back the car and repair it.
I know two of my friends who have done this and therefore certainly would not have looking for higher salvage quotes.
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Yes it can be to your advantage, if you want to hold on to the car or take the time to sell the salvage yourself, I just wanted to point it out that even though the Motor assessors job is to obtain the best offer available on the salvage, in my case for whatever reason the motor assessor never offered the car the any of the main salvage agents in the province (as far as I can see only one salvage agent got offered the car), and through a few phone calls I made substantially more from it, most people would just take the offer at face value and accept it without knowing that the best offer received from the Motor Assessor will be far from the best possible offer available out there.
 
Thanks for the post murphy. I may be in a similar situation myself (the insurance company engineer is assessing the car damage at the minute) but in my policy is states than in the event of a write off, the insurance company will pay me the PAV and will take ownership of the car, suggesting that I won't have to concern myself with salvage agents or the salvage value of the car. Is this different to your policy or is there a chance the insurance company could still insist I salvage the car myself first and claim the balance from them?
 
Ceist Beag said:
Thanks for the post murphy. I may be in a similar situation myself (the insurance company engineer is assessing the car damage at the minute) but in my policy is states than in the event of a write off, the insurance company will pay me the PAV and will take ownership of the car, suggesting that I won't have to concern myself with salvage agents or the salvage value of the car. Is this different to your policy or is there a chance the insurance company could still insist I salvage the car myself first and claim the balance from them?
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I opted to put my claim through the other parties insurance so maybe that is the reason they just obtained a bid and asked me to sell it to that salvage agent, it may be different for you seeing as you are going through your own insurer. However if they do write to you with a bid on the salvage, as they did with me, I would recommend you make a few phone calls as I'm sure you will get more for the car yourself rather than selling it to the motor assessors preferred salvage agent.
 
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