Michelle Smith Medals

[DerKaiser]

I'll start out by saying this has nothing to do with Michelle Smith.

She won 3 gold medals and one bronze at the Olympics in 1996. Regardless of whether you think she cheated or not they are there in the record books and are a matter of fact.

My problem is with the reporting of our current olympic success. Journalists routinely declare that it's a first gold for a female competitor representing Ireland or even more commonly state it's our first gold in 20 years (http://www.rte.ie/sport/olympics/2012/0813/333464-jacqui-hurleys-closing-thoughts-on-london-2012/).

That is factually incorrect.

In short, I don't care how you airbrush Michelle Smith from our olympic history so long as it is not through denying facts.

 

[TarfHead]

You're right. Her medals still stand and the only taint against them is in people's heads. Like mine.

The piece you linked to is an opinion piece by Jacqui Hurley. I'd say it won;t be long on the website in that form.

 

[T McGibney]

Journalists routinely declare that it's a first gold for a female competitor representing Ireland or even more commonly state it's our first gold in 20 years.

Is anyone really bothered about what random sports journalists write/say/think? At this stage, the entire Michelle Smith saga needs to be consigned to history.

 

[Shawady]

The Sunday Times had a piece at the weekend summarizing our performance at the olympics. The article contained a table showing how many medals we had won in each olympics since 1956. For the year 1996, it claimed we won zero medals. In a footnote it stated "We do not include any medals from the discredited Michelle Smith".

 

[truthseeker]

The Sunday Times had a piece at the weekend summarizing our performance at the olympics. The article contained a table showing how many medals we had won in each olympics since 1956. For the year 1996, it claimed we won zero medals. In a footnote it stated "We do not include any medals from the discredited Michelle Smith".

Am I correct in saying that it was never proven that she had cheated/doped when she won the Olympic medals, but she failed drug tests the following year (or sometime afterwards)?

Although I do remember she went from zero to hero in a very short time frame so is it just accepted that she must have cheated in the Olympics?

 

[Sunny]

The Sunday Times had a piece at the weekend summarizing our performance at the olympics. The article contained a table showing how many medals we had won in each olympics since 1956. For the year 1996, it claimed we won zero medals. In a footnote it stated "We do not include any medals from the discredited Michelle Smith".

I agree with their stance. Just like I agree with David Walsh and Paul Kimmage continuing to ask the difficult questions of Lance Armstrong (and indeed Stephen Roche) when the rest of the media bury their heads in the sand.

Personally as an Irish sports fan, I have no desire to be associated with those medals and I don't care what the record books state. People are free to disagree and view Michelle Smith as Ireland's greatest Olympian just like many Americans still view Carl Lewis as their greatest Olympian but I for one will never acknowledge those achievements. (And I say that as someone in the innocence of youth cheered and defended Michelle Smith at the time.)

 

[TarfHead]

Is anyone really bothered about what random sports journalists write/say/think?

The piece, linked to by the OP, is published on the RTE website. That, for me, creates a different context.

Any debate about the basis of her achievement has the potential to descend into a Saipan style shouting match, one that the AAM moderators would act upon.

 

[Sunny]

The piece, linked to by the OP, is published on the RTE website. That, for me, creates a different context.

Any debate about the basis of her achievement has the potential to descend into a Saipan style shouting match, one that the AAM moderators would act upon.

It's the same contaxt. The journalist obviously feels the same as the journalists in the Sunday Times (and me).

But I agree that it is pointless discussion.

 

[Shawady]

Personally as an Irish sports fan, I have no desire to be associated with those medals and I don't care what the record books state. People are free to disagree and view Michelle Smith as Ireland's greatest Olympian just like many Americans still view Carl Lewis as their greatest Olympian but I for one will never acknowledge those achievements.

I think most Irish sports fans see those medals as tainted but you hit the nail on the head re: Carl Lewis. I have constantly read over the past few weeks that Usain Bolt was the first man to defend the 100m since Carl Lewis yet Lewis has question marks over his use of stimulants. Similarly I think Linford Christie tested positive for drugs long after his gold medal in 1992 100m but it doesn't come accross in the media that their medals are tainited in any way.

There was a documentary on the 1988 100m final recently and it stated that 6 of the 8 finalist had subsequently tested positive for stimulants but Ben Johnson was just dumb enough to get caught at the time.

 

[TarfHead]

It's the same contaxt.

Something published on the website of the national (State funded) broadcaster is, IMHO, different to something published in the Irish edition of a UK newspaper.

 

[TarfHead]

.. but Ben Johnson was just dumb enough to get caught at the time.

According to Victor (BALCO (Barry Bonds, Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery)) Conte, no athlete ever fails a drugs test, they fail an IQ test.

 

[Shawady]

You do wonder how many athletes actually take stimluants and are just one step ahead of the science?

Do they hold on to samples for a specific length of time now?

 

[truthseeker]

You do wonder how many athletes actually take stimluants and are just one step ahead of the science?

Do they hold on to samples for a specific length of time now?

Pretty much all of them at top level I would think.

There are a number of interesting documentaries on it.

 

[Ceist Beag]

They must be well ahead of the science if so - samples can be held for 8 years and medals stripped if they test positive at any time up to the end of the 8 years. Can they really be that far ahead of the science and if so should more be done to financially hit those caught (and with the aim of doing so pump more money into catching them in the first place)?

 

[truthseeker]

They must be well ahead of the science if so - samples can be held for 8 years and medals stripped if they test positive at any time up to the end of the 8 years. Can they really be that far ahead of the science and if so should more be done to financially hit those caught (and with the aim of doing so pump more money into catching them in the first place)?

There are chemists who work solely on illegal formulas that will degrade, that are indistinguishable from real chemicals produced in the body, that people can use and all traces will be out of the system within certain time frames, that are exactly the same as something already tested for except for one carbon atom (or whatever) etc....

And then there are the legit scientists who are effectively poking a black box trying to figure out what people are putting into themselves. Its impossible to keep up with it really.

 

[micmclo]

I remember the American swimmer Janet Evans who was 9th overall in the heats and complained fiercely that while she had missed the final 8, Smith should not be there

She was dismissed as a whining American by RTÉ and the Irish public

Looks like she was right

 

[PyritePete]

I have posted here previously re Michelle Smith doing a runner from Dublin Hotels as she knew the testers were coming. She never failed a drug test (couldn't be caught ha ha) but was done for tampering with a sample. The fact that her husband was also involved in drugs....

big +1 for the documentary on 1988 Olympics 100 final - the race that rocked the world or something like that. Lewis is a plonker - he broke the code by appearing on UK television lamenting the drug cheats only to be found guilty of taking 3 banned stimulants himself. The big giveaway was the braces on Lewis' teeth - this can be put down to the human growth hormone taken. When Lewis hadn't beaten Johnson for years, he was losing out big time.

People say Ben J was dumb, not in my opinion. He made millions ! Of the 2 sprinters from 1988 final, Robson Da Silva from Brazil stated he was clean but by staying clean he lost millions. The other clean sprinter was Calvin Smith who had no sympathy for Ben, Carl, Linford the lunchbox etc.

I also read that Dwain the Druggie Chambers had in his contract that he had to finish on the podium at major meets otherwise his endorsements, bonus etc was reduced by 50% ! And guess what he was taking & subsequently banned for.

The one I feel sorry for in 100m final just gone is Tyson Gay, beaten into 4th by a 1/100th of a second by a returning druggie - Justin Gatlin.

 

[DerKaiser]

Personally as an Irish sports fan, I have no desire to be associated with those medals

I agree 100%, but that's not my point.

I don't care what the record books state.

I do. You can't ignore facts you don't like.

No matter how uncomfortable I am about it, if someone asks me how many medals Ireland won at Atlanta, I will say four.

If I'm asked in a quiz who was the first woman to have won Olympic gold representing Ireland, I will say Michelle Smith, no matter how much I want it to have been Katie Taylor (or Sonia!).

 

[blueband]

I remember the American swimmer Janet Evans who was 9th overall in the heats and complained fiercely that while she had missed the final 8, Smith should not be there

She was dismissed as a whining American by RTÉ and the Irish public

Looks like she was right

how was she right? there was no wrong doing ever proven against michelle smith at the time she won the medals, thats how they were never taken back from her!

 

[TarfHead]

I remember the American swimmer Janet Evans who was 9th overall in the heats and complained fiercely that while she had missed the final 8

My recollection is different. Evans was asked a question if other swimmers were talking about Smith's performance. She confirmed that they were. Even Gary O'Toole in the RTE studio was reserved in his appraisal of Smith's performance. For one so articulate and insightful in his analysis, his understatement spoke volumes.