Maternity, Paternity pay etc.

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faketales

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About to be a first time father so just getting my head around the different schemes.

I'm quite shocked at the poor rate of maternity pay. At €262 it's not much more than Jobseekers Allowance at €220 and a long way from a livible wage. It's also unlikely a person on mat pay will qualify for any of the other benefits that someone on JSA may be entitled to.

My wife earns decent money in a professional job. However the company is very small as it's pretty much industry standard for maternity pay not to be topped up.

I will get my Paternity Leave topped up. But not Parents Leave. I certainly won't be able to afford to take any Parents Leave untill she goes back. I think it's also €262 a week. Even then it will be difficult. A case of trying to survive on one salary for up to a year.

I understand that Parents Leave is currently 7 weeks and may be extended. However I don't see anything about increasing the rate. From what I see only people who are lucky enough for it to be topped up take it.

Now it's probably a case of me being blind to problems that I don't face and I'm sure the situation is better than it was only a few years ago.

However it appears that the state is relying very heavily on large companies and multinationals to top up maternity and other leave.

I get the feeling that these companies play a bigger role in Ireland than say a European average.

Should the state not be providing a higher level of base mat, pat pay and perhaps taxing all businesses more to cover it?

I can understand who a small business of 4 or 5 can't afford to pay an extra person for 6 or more months. You need to hit a certain number of employees to be able to afford to top up leave I expect.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
State employees also get full pay whilst on maternity/paternity leave.
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So one arm of the state (as an employer) believe in full pay.

But the arm involved in providing benefits sees €262 and an optional top up as enough.

It then gets into what duties the state provides and what it outsources.
 
faketales said:
About to be a first time father so just getting my head around the different schemes.

I'm quite shocked at the poor rate of maternity pay. At €262 it's not much more than Jobseekers Allowance at €220 and a long way from a livible wage. It's also unlikely a person on mat pay will qualify for any of the other benefits that someone on JSA may be entitled to.

My wife earns decent money in a professional job. However the company is very small as it's pretty much industry standard for maternity pay not to be topped up.

I will get my Paternity Leave topped up. But not Parents Leave. I certainly won't be able to afford to take any Parents Leave untill she goes back. I think it's also €262 a week. Even then it will be difficult. A case of trying to survive on one salary for up to a year.

I understand that Parents Leave is currently 7 weeks and may be extended. However I don't see anything about increasing the rate. From what I see only people who are lucky enough for it to be topped up take it.

Now it's probably a case of me being blind to problems that I don't face and I'm sure the situation is better than it was only a few years ago.

However it appears that the state is relying very heavily on large companies and multinationals to top up maternity and other leave.

I get the feeling that these companies play a bigger role in Ireland than say a European average.

Should the state not be providing a higher level of base mat, pat pay and perhaps taxing all businesses more to cover it?

I can understand who a small business of 4 or 5 can't afford to pay an extra person for 6 or more months. You need to hit a certain number of employees to be able to afford to top up leave I expect.
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Is there a question here?
 
ClubMan said:
Is there a question here?
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It's an open discussion especially on the last part. Is my observation correct that the state relying on large multi nationals which employ so many in Ireland?

Could more tax and higher pay work? Basically pool and redistribute the money that goes to mat and pat pay? Could help small companies attract talent.

The different view of the state as an employer and benefit provider is interesting. Although a little more comple!
 
ClubMan said:
What about individuals/couples taking responsibility for their decision to have kids and planning/budgeting accordingly themselves?
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Well the current situation for many seems to be to find yourself a job at a large company or a state job. But thats much easier for some professions than others.

So we have outsourced a lot of social benefits to be employee benefits.

This is the approach we see in America regarding health insurance.

You could apply your approach to anything really. Why have unemployment benefits. Just budget accordingly for being out of work?

Personally i prefer the approach of paying in via tax and that money being redistributed when / if needed.
 
faketales said:
Well the current situation for many seems to be to find yourself a job at a large company or a state job. But thats much easier for some professions than others.

So we have outsourced a lot of social benefits to be employee benefits.

This is the approach we see in America regarding health insurance.

You could apply your approach to anything really. Why have unemployment benefits. Just budget accordingly for being out of work?

Personally i prefer the approach of paying in via tax and that money being redistributed when / if needed.
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Cheer up! Once Faketail junior has arrived safely, it and its parents will get loads of goodies from the State.

Loads and loads more goodies than my (single income) parents got, 66-odd years ago, when the stork delivered me.

And loads more goodies than Mrs Marsupial and I got, some 30 three decades ago, when our two sprogs emerged - separately - from the cabbage patch in the back garden!
 
faketales said:
Well the current situation for many seems to be to find yourself a job at a large company or a state job. But thats much easier for some professions than others.

So we have outsourced a lot of social benefits to be employee benefits.

This is the approach we see in America regarding health insurance.

You could apply your approach to anything really. Why have unemployment benefits. Just budget accordingly for being out of work?

Personally i prefer the approach of paying in via tax and that money being redistributed when / if needed.
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Why not just cut out the middle man and have the State pay everyone everything directly sure? Sure aren't they just currently outsourcing this to MNCs?
 
I think the state are doing their best in a situation with a poor historical record - see Mr Marsupial above for some examples.

It is wonderful that you and Mrs Faketales have decided to have children. They will bring you great joy - but will hit you on the bottom line.

Some recommendations on the money management side of it.

Once you decide to have a baby start saving. The mother could be out of work for 12 month-ish, there are costs around childbirth and there is childraring equipment to obtain.

Luckily the state insists a pregnant lady can take maternity leave from her work with all her employment rights protected so she can care for the infant. It also helps if she is breastfeeding (a lot cheaper than formula). I think it is about 50:50 whether employers will top up the maternity benefit, which is probably enough to cover the basics for Mum and baby.

Check you work contract, you may be entitled to paid paternity leave from your work, it used to be 1-3 days but nowadays can be 1-2 weeks. This will allow you time to be there for the birth and get the home ready for mum and baby returning from hospital.

You can also take 2 weeks paternity leave, with paternity benefit from the government to help you bond with your baby and provide more care for mum and baby in those first few months.

You and Mum can also avail of parents leave with a parents benefit from welfare any time up to the child is two. These 14 weeks will be a great help if there are childcare needs or you want to spend more time with your child.

And then there is Patental leave of 26 weeks unpaid which can be taken any time up to the age of 12 for the kid. These are great for school holidays, or working a 4 day week until it runs out.

As you say a lot of these are at state benefit rate or unpaid, but on the plus side you are guaranteed job security and the employer has to hold the job open for you.

While on maternity leave I would recommend that you save for childcare. It can be very expensive so it will be good to get some savings in.

Luckily the government had created free GP cards for kids up to age 7 and for the care of pregnant mums so there is great savings to be made there.

All in all the government is doing its best to support families, there is the family welfare payment for low paid parents, that might be worth exploring.

Dependant on the family many mums (in the main the mum) decide not to return to work or only work part-time so I would also save for this in your case, just to be careful. You would not need to worry about childcare costs in that case.

And everything costs more for a family of 3 - heating, can’t have cold rooms in the winter, food, holidays, clothing etc. so have a look at your budget and see where you can make discretionary savings to better budget for your family.

Best of luck.
 
Why should the state pay full pay for maternity leave? Having kids is a lifestyle choice and (edit) NOT the same as being ill or unemployed

If it is a priority for you make sure you are employed somewhere that offers it as a benefit - simple. Lower salaries in the public sector reflect the better non-pay benefits like mat leave. You can't have it both ways
 
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messyleo said:
Why should the state pay full pay for maternity leave? Having kids is a lifestyle choice and the same as being ill or unemployed

If it is a priority for you make sure you are employed somewhere that offers it as a benefit - simple. Lower salaries in the public sector reflect the better non-pay benefits like mat leave. You can't have it both ways
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I would question being Ill is a lifestyle choice.

I would also say short term unemployment isn't.

To be honest I don't think think that the state should pay full but perhaps a higher number.

I think there is general agreement that the state pay something and I don't think anyone would really argue that the state should match high incomes. So I would expect discussion to be on what is fair / what model.

I'm not so sure on the public / private divide anymore.

Many large companies now have paid paternity (not just tech). I don't believe most state jobs have that.

Smaller companies and those in the service industry etc tent not to obviously.
 
Sorry that was a typo I meant NOT the same as being sick on unemployed so different - fixed now thanks!
 
It can be really hard to find out what firms pay full maternity leave but it is a worthwhile exercise to help choose between different offers at the job search stage at the childcare bearing years. 6 months salary can be a hefty sum. I know I made very deliberate choices at this time of my life. While it cam be hard to change jobs post maternity leave and while kids are young it's not impossible so maybe worthwhile considering this before any other children.
 
As a female who is the higher earner in our family. We took a huge financial hit with Maternity Leave which employers didn’t top up.

Also, a lot of unwanted comments/judgement about my (our) decision for me to return to work before 26 weeks for the betterment our families financial health. But that’s another topic. The more shared leave becomes the standard the better.

Not sure about the details or if I agree with it but I believe in many other European countries your state welfare payments is calculated as a % of your previous years tax contributions (up to a limit) I.e the more in absolute you contributed in tax the more you get back when you need it.
 
ClubMan said:
What about individuals/couples taking responsibility for their decision to have kids and planning/budgeting accordingly themselves?
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If the capacity for “planning/budgeting” was a consideration in the allocation of the states resources, I’m struggling to see the justification for literally any age related benefit?
 
Itchy said:
If the capacity for “planning/budgeting” was a consideration in the allocation of the states resources, I’m struggling to see the justification for literally any age related benefit?
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Again one is a lifestyle choice, and you can choose not to have children - the other (aging) isn't!!
 
Marsupial said:
Cheer up! Once Faketail junior has arrived safely, it and its parents will get loads of goodies from the State.

Loads and loads more goodies than my (single income) parents got, 66-odd years ago, when the stork delivered me.

And loads more goodies than Mrs Marsupial and I got, some 30 three decades ago, when our two sprogs emerged - separately - from the cabbage patch in the back garden!
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Please don't tell me what to do. And don't refer to my child as it either.

Ireland has changed dramatically in such a time. I don't think benchmarking ourselves Vs 30 or 60 odd years ago offers much value.

It seem my observation are worse than I expected when comparing with OECD states.

Ireland ranks second last of 38 developed countries when it comes to parental leave entitlements, a new study indicates.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/2022/10/03/ireland-ranks-second-worst-across-oecd-for-parental-leave-and-worst-for-public-family-p (IT Article)
 
JuzAAM said:
As a female who is the higher earner in our family. We took a huge financial hit with Maternity Leave which employers didn’t top up.

Also, a lot of unwanted comments/judgement about my (our) decision for me to return to work before 26 weeks for the betterment our families financial health. But that’s another topic. The more shared leave becomes the standard the better.

Not sure about the details or if I agree with it but I believe in many other European countries your state welfare payments is calculated as a % of your previous years tax contributions (up to a limit) I.e the more in absolute you contributed in tax the more you get back when you need it.
Click to expand...

The equivalent of Jobseekers Benefits in Canada (referred to a Employment Insurance) is based in this principle.

Maternity and Parental are similar. You may get up to 55% of income or about $650 a week. I think the maternity is something like 15 weeks and Parental is something like 40 weeks shared where one person can do a max of 35 of the 40 weeks. So the Monterey can take up to 50weeks.

Anecdotally I found for a couples 2nd or 3rd kid the father may take more of the parental.
 
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