Mary McAleese does Gerry Adams

O

oysterman

Guest
Morning Ireland this morning saw our President accept an invitation to do (I'm sure she thought) her well-practised stream of emotional guff, this time tailored to the Auschwitz anniversary.

Imagine her horror then when pressed to say sorry on behalf of the nation to the Jewish community for deV's signing of the Hitler book of condolence, or even to state that it was wrong.

She wriggled like a Shinner caught in the headlights of a request by an interviewer to condemn the killing of a mother or child.

Why? Is it because the personalised emotional twaddle she's been peddling for the best part of a decade now has made her forget how to speak straight? Or is it because she knows she's never really been accepted as one of them by the inner circle in Fianna Fail and she doesn't want to spoil her chances by questioning the canonization rights of one of their icons?
 
Ah now Oysterman she did say something like "we should all hang our heads in shame to an extent...." wwith the caveat "like most countries around Europe....."

Roy
 
Is it right to judge a person's past actions by the changed opinion/culture/ethos of our modern times? Did Dev do it for reasons of political expediency valid at that time? Did we apologise for our treatment of the requests of Jewish people to immigrate here - surely a much more important matter?
Although it was only 60 years ago, it was a different world. Would be interested to hear what other have to say on this.
 
Why would anybody honestly expect anything other than platitudes from Mary McAleese or any Irish President for that matter?
 
Oysterman - absolutely. What was the shinners' favorite line - "we don't engage in the politics of condemnaation". Holy Mary argued that apologies were inadequate to the occasion - I say make the apology and let others decide on its adequacy.
 
oysterman,
"or even to state that it was wrong."
What is the madness that is going round ? where you have to repeat the exact words, of the interviewer.
It was an error on Dev's part. Hindsight etc. What did Dev know?
Time's were different.
The Brits were about to take over our ports uninvited.
IMHO no apology needed. History is history.
Rgds
red
 
No remorse, eh Red?

Isn't that the cry of Combat 18 ?

Their own brand of violent sectarian thuggery makes them very suitable bedfellows for SFIRA
 
It was an error on Dev's part. Hindsight etc. What did Dev know?
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This would be comical if the subject matter wasn't so grave.

There seems to be a bit of a momentum building up now i.e. it's almost alright to mention the war. Up until very recently ,generally speaking, very few natives would have known the meaning of "concentration camp" even though that's what most of their forebears would have been in if it hadn't been for the foresite and bravery of Churchill and latterly, help from the Americans.

And Dev didn't really know what he was like? Incredulous.

I sincerely hope that poppy wearing and Remembrance Sunday will become commonplace- it's an abomination that it hasn't been to date - and the mealy-mouthed president will now be shedding crocodile tears.

Likewise with Napoleon - he could have been even worse but Nelson stopped him.

And the Irish gratitude for Nelsons valour? Bombing his statue and replacing it with a giant needle.
 
Don't want to interrupt the Anglophilia being a Churchill fan myself. But wasn't the real reason we repelled holocaust boarders in World War II because there was a sneaking regard in Free Europe including Ireland for the inhuman crimes against Jews and others.
 
Yes there was - from This post will be deleted if not edited immediately' followers onwards, no one has forgiven them. Add to that a closely knit race who are very successful in business - the result: people regard them with suspicion and consequently fear because they can't get a 'handle' on them.

The holocaust was of course an appalling event in history but they lost 6 million people; what about the Russians? They lost 20 million at the hands of the Nazis, more than any nation involved in the war by far. Why is there not a mass outcry about this? Are 20 million Russian lives worth somewhat less than 6 million jewish ones? Or is it that the collective Russian population is being dismissed beacause of Stalins misdeeds?

Thinking of Stalin, a conservative estimate is that 50 million people died in the Gulag, post WW11. Again, I don't know of any international commemoration day for these people.
 
NoelC , you must be a loyalist as they are the only ones to say Sinn Fein / IRA . Do you actually know if they are all one or would you be prepared to debate the issue in person ?
 
I don't know of any international commemoration day for these people.

It isn't just about numbers though. One third of the world-wide Jewish population were murdered. They were all but wiped out in Europe.

Sure we should remember the victims of Stalin but isn't it mainly up to the Russian people/state to lead this?
 
I heard the interview this morning and I was curious as to how she was going to answer the pertinent question.

I thought she handled it perfectly - skirted the expected answer as one would expect a "diplomatic" President to do! She doesn't have a political role to play.

I sometimes find her emotive empathetic tone overbearing. But, maybe she totally believes what she says and if so, who am I to judge?

Marion :hat
 
Leatherarse wrote "NoelC , you must be a loyalist as they are the only ones to say Sinn Fein / IRA . Do you actually know if they are all one or would you be prepared to debate the issue in person ? "

You are wrong about SF/ IRA , leather. I know many people who are not loyalists and who say SF / IRA. And anyway, is there something wrong with being a loyalist ? Loyalists are loyal / patriotic to their country/ administration, the UK , just as you presumeably see yourself as being loyal / patriotic to yours.

As regards SF / IRA, everyone knows they are not mutually inclusive but not mutually exclusive either. Many , many people, included many elected politicians, have been found to be members of both.
 
I didn't hear the bit where Holy Mary compared some Northern Protestants' hatred of RCs to the Nazi's hatred of Jews. She really has dropped them this time. Scratch a catholic and you find a rebel!
 
Rabbit, I am not disputing the fact that there is a "Relationship" between Sinn Fein and the IRA, but in the same vein there is also a link between the DUP and UVF but no one says DUP/UVF when talking about the DUP.
 
in the same vein there is also a link between the DUP and UVF
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I would seriously doubt if this is true - while it is not impossible that some DUP members may be UVF members (and vice versa) I think it stretches credulity beyond breaking point to allege that the two organisations are as closely and inextricably linked as SF and IRA (or indeed SFIRA).

For a start:
1. The DUP is within its own target market a typical, populist "catch-all party". It draws its support from all classes of Protestant and Presbyterian society in the North, and is led largely by middle-class, middle-aged (or elderly) gentlemen, with a strong ethos of religious observance (some might justifiably say fundamentalism).

The UVF and its political associates in the PUP, as represented by the likes of David Ervine and Billy Hutchinson are the polar opposite. It draws its support almost exclusively from the urban working class in and around Belfast. Its political agenda (such as it is) is based largely on representing the interests of this narrow constituency. Most commentators believe that its political agenda is dwarfed by the extent of criminal activity in which it is involved.

2. There are deep electoral rivalries between the DUP and the UVF (in the form of the PUP) and in all but a few greater Belfast working class ghettos the DUP usually wipe the floor with the PUP. I have never seen SF oppose the IRA in an electoral contest.

3. The UVF and PUP remain a ghettoised movement precisely because of the disdain in which they (and more particularly their criminal activities) are regarded by the DUP's God-fearing Protestant constituency. It cannot seriously be said that most SF supporters are similarly disgusted by the existence of the IRA.

4. You never see an SF spokesperson criticise the IRA. They same cannot be said for the DUP vis a vis the UVF.
 
Re: Rebel, rebel

Tharggy, if you ever get to scratch me you will find that I have green and white hoops in my veins. :lol
 
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