Major headaches with Revolut and N26 after phone got stolen

Brendan Burgess said:
If a person is careless enough to have their pin compromised, then they should take responsibility for their own losses.

Brendan
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Paying by google pay doesn't require a pin to be entered. Generally if the transaction is low enough, the amount will go through once the phone is tapped. If the amount is higher than 50, or there are a number of phone tap transactions, you will be required to unlock your phone and tap again.
 
Nutso said:
Paying by google pay doesn't require a pin to be entered. Generally if the transaction is low enough, the amount will go through once the phone is tapped. If the amount is higher than 50, or there are a number of phone tap transactions, you will be required to unlock your phone and tap again.
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All of the transactions were above 50. They were able to make 3 successful transactions, each well over 50, with each of my three cards.
 
Steven Barrett said:
And this is why I don't mind paying €6 a month for my boI account. I usually just use Apple Wallet to pay for things (need to use face ID to pay for anything) but if things go wrong, the bank will resolve things quicker.

I hope things get sorted quickly Dubliner8
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Absolutely Steven, it really puts things in perspective. Even the Bank of Ireland call centre that is possibly outsourced outside Ireland that deal with the phone app and pin code etc are very helpful. Whereas Revolut and N26 chat have you going in circles and you end up getting advised irrelevant information for much of the exchanges.
 
Back with access to N26 today after submitting documents yesterday. But still waiting for the investigation on the fraudulent payment to be completed.
 
dubliner8 said:
Back with access to N26 today after submitting documents yesterday. But still waiting for the investigation on the fraudulent payment to be completed.
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Were your direct debits still processed whilst your N26 account was blocked? Hope you get sorted soon.
 
Corbally76 said:
Were your direct debits still processed whilst your N26 account was blocked? Hope you get sorted soon.
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I prefer to do manual payments for bills so I didn't come across that issue. Transfers etc were blocked so I'd imagine DDs would not go through if one was set up on the account.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
@dubliner8
Did you ever get to the bottom of this? How it happened?

Did you get your money back from Revolut?

Brendan
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No, it's still with the Garda who expects to be able to bring the two people to court (over several thefts, not just mine I think).
Revolut didn't refund, then N26 also came back and refused. So am down 400eur or so out of total fraudulent amount of nearly 500eur as Bank of Ireland refunded nearly 70 and 200 top up to N26 but N26 kept that 200 credit on their ledgers and then didn't refund the 300 transaction.
I just now emailed the schlichtungsstelle@bafin.de and schlichtung@bundesbank.de in German with my complaint against N26.
The Irish ombudsman hasn't come back yet on my complaint against Revolut.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
But that is for the pick pocketing of your phone?

They presumably are not some expert Russian criminal gang carrying out a sophisticated fraud?

Brendan
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No as I understand it is for everything. There's actually more evidence for the transactions fraud as there was no CCTV cameras at the back of the bar yet they have ample CCTV footage linking them with the transactions in multiple locations.
 
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I am trying to figure out if someone robbed my phone could they do this.

If my phone is in my pocket, then they would need to guess the phone pin to open it. I turn my phone off when not in use and if I don't, it autolocks after 1 minute. So they would nearly have to swipe it out of my hand.

My iphone recognises me when I double click to pay. So that wouldn't work for them.

They would be asked for the pin on my credit card. That is different from the pin on my phone. I might do an experiment with a friend of mine and a cooperative retailer to see if my friend who knows my phone pin could use my Apple Pay. I doubt he could.

Maybe small transactions, but even for them, I think the phone has to recognise me.

Brendan
 
My understanding is that having your iphone stolen by someone who knows your passcode is a big problem.

They can turn off face-id (settings > face id & passcode).They can potentially change your apple account password..

Your email and text messages are likely now available on the phone without a passcode, so when your bank checks the user via an email or text you're in trouble. Phone based two factor authentication is now useless in terms of protecting you.

People can use the forgot-your-password options to reset passwords and get full login and lock you out of various accounts including some financial ones.
 
The pickpocket could be so good that they see the person entering their pin and are able to memorise it and enter it later on when they have the phone. So if you believe iphone security is adequate you can decide that that will protect your accounts if pickpocketed. Similarly with Android.
One of the latest threads below from Reddit on Revolut where the victim had phone, physical cards, and ID stolen. Whether this is down to negligence on the part of the victim or not, the repeated display of Revolut showing their "evil" side versus the traditional banks in these sorts of cases would indicate that we should do all necessary preventative actions to protect funds from the dangerous perils of having a Revolut account and a Revolut account on one's everyday phone.

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Revolut denied unauthorized transaction fraud claim​

Security

I am at a loss for words and would appreciate some help.
I am currently on holiday in Kenya and on Thursday night/Friday morning I was out at club and someone stole my bag. It contained everything - my phone, my ID, my wallet with my revolut card, barclays card, amex and capital one card and my keys to my Airbnb.
I noticed early in the morning (Friday morning) and went to an acquantence to log into the website to report on their MAC. Even my email account (hotmail) had over 10 emails saying “suspicious activity detected. please confirm if this was you.” By then I had seen that over £3k in transactions were made on my cards. £750 on Revolut, £1200 on Barclays and the remaining on my Amex and Capital One. This was pretty much all the money I have. I think there are £290 left on a Revolut vault und £100 in my Barclays. All the payments were made to Binance, Kraken and Booking.Com . Mind you I have never ever dealt with Crypto and there is not a single crypto transaction on my account since I have had it for 5 years. When I contacted Revolut and told them that my belongings and phone were stolen they first said I have to change my passcode IN THE MOBILE APP before they can help me - I told them that is a ridiculous ask as my phone just got stolen. They said to find a trusted friend whose phone I could use to change my details. Insanely ridiculous security measure to ask your customers to log into their bank account through other people’s phones.
After I finally got someone’s phone to change my passcode, I logged back in and they took over 24 hours (!!!) to even issue a new card for me and their customer support took 6-7 hours each time to respond. They only raised a fraud case Saturday evening, almost 30 hours after I first contacted them! Then 3 hours later I see an email saying that my account has been frozen! Mind you, I am in a foreign country and Revolut is (foolishly) my main personal account. So now they left me with no way of paying! I reported the theft to the police and they tried to track the phone with no luck. I reported it to Action Fraud UK. I sent the police report to Revolut as well as the Action Fraud Case Reference. I went to the embassy with them too to get a temporary travel ID. Today, after almost 5 days, they send me an email saying “the transactions were approved while you had access to the phone” and that they cannot proceed with a chargeback?!?! I did not make any of the transactions and I am at a loss for words. Amex, Capital and Barclays immediately cancelled the cards and provisionally refunded the amounts.
 
If someone has your iphone PIN you are in big trouble indeed, but there are steps you can take to mitigate risk.

  1. Iphone users should use FaceID at all times as it means you have to enter your PIN less frequently and are therefore less likely to have the PIN read over your shoulder;
  2. You can turn on FaceID/PIN for important apps so that these can't be used if someone snatches the phone from your hand when it's unlocked. It's a bit fiddle but this youtube video here. I have it turned on for all google and messaging apps so they can't get into my messages or email to reset a password on another app;
  3. For Revolut there is a new security feature which relies on a picture of your face to release money from a vault. You have to switch this on within the app. It seems to take 15 seconds to work.
Generally speaking law enforcement have very little interest in this kind of crime and people shouldn't expect much response.
 
Am I missing something? If a Revolut card is linked to Apple or Google Pay and a fraudster or thief gets access to Apple or Google Pay, it’s not Revolut’s problem and from their perspective there is no fraud or theft because the transactions have been authorised at their end.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
Am I missing something? If a Revolut card is linked to Apple or Google Pay and a fraudster or thief gets access to Apple or Google Pay, it’s not Revolut’s problem and from their perspective there is no fraud or theft because the transactions have been authorised at their end.
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If Revolut trumpeted that they would help fraudsters if you were pickpocketed or the subject of a scam do you think they would get as many users as they do by positive word of mouth and sheep dynamics and advertising of their ridiculous benefits of premium tier accounts that they will jettison down the line? Revolut and the likes exist in a vacuum of imperfect information, people are more likely to not know any major negatives with Revolut despite the multitude of media stories detailing where Revolut facilitate fraud through their app architecture first of all and refusals at fraud department and customer service levels after the fraud has been allowed to be committed.
 
@dubliner8

I have been thinking about this and trying to figure it out. And I will put on my Ombudsman's hat. You might not like these questions, but they will help you in progressing your complaint.

You had your phone robbed.
They stole money from your Revolut account, your N26 account and your Bank of Ireland account.

So your case is not evidence of any weaker systems in Revolut than N26 or BoI. (They may have responded differently afterwards, but all three were affected.)

Phone security
The first thing that the thief has to do is to get into your phone.

1) Was your phone switched off when it was stolen?
2) Had you auto-switch off set on your phone?
3) If so, how long does your phone have to be idle for when it is switched off?
4) Was it picked from your pocket or was it lying on the table, switched on, beside you in a pub?
5) Was your phone pin easily guessable? For example 1234, your date of birth, etc.?

Google Pay/Banking security
1) How did they get into Google Pay?
2) They must have known your password?
3) Was your password for Google Pay the same as your password for your phone?
4) I presume you need only one password for Google Pay and that accesses all your cards? In other words, you don't need separate pins for all your different cards.
 
dubliner8 said:
If Revolut trumpeted that they would help fraudsters if you were pickpocketed or the subject of a scam do you think they would get as many users as they do by positive word of mouth and sheep dynamics and advertising of their ridiculous benefits of premium tier accounts that they will jettison down the line? Revolut and the likes exist in a vacuum of imperfect information, people are more likely to not know any major negatives with Revolut despite the multitude of media stories detailing where Revolut facilitate fraud through their app architecture first of all and refusals at fraud department and customer service levels after the fraud has been allowed to be committed.
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None of that is relevant to this discussion.

If your phone is accessed and you have Apple Pay or Google Pay, your cards might as well be cash physically sitting on the phone. Scenarios such as this are nothing to do with Revolut!
 
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