life assurance and STD testing

Q

query

Guest
i am looking for life assurance and notice that on many application forms that you are asked whether you have ever been tested for any sexually transmitted disease.
are you automatically loaded if you answer yes to this question? even if you had no positive tests?
and if you have tested positive for a non life threatening STD will this have a serious impact on the cost of life cover?
 
Life Assurance

IMHO you would not be automatically loaded. I think like all medical questions it would be assessed and only if found to be a high insurable risk that you may be loaded.
I am not a Doctor so I cannot say if an STD is classified as a high insurable risk however I personally don't think it would be.

The effects of non-disclosure is dangerous. They will possibly write to a Doctor and if they find out you have omitted items on the proposal they could reject the application. If at a later stage, you were diagnosed of, lets say, pelvic cancer, and you have not disclosed an STD and the insurance company found out about it, they could reject the claim, even though it may not be related.

When it comes to a life policy, honesty is the best policy.
 
Re: Life Assurance

Quite often your GP will advise you to get a HIV or STD test done independently as he will be obliged to put in on your record if you go through him. This is advised for precisely this reason. Agree with previous poster regarding disclosure so if you had the test done through your GP you will have no choice but to reveal. If, through an indepedent private clinic, you have got a negative result I don't see why you need to reveal this.
 
Re: Life Assurance

I spoke to my doctor about this the last time I had a proper check-up. She was aware of the situation re Life Assurance etc. and offered to ensure the (negative) results were not put on my file. If they were positive, it wouldn't really make much odds as then there would clearly be something tangible to declare.

I don't think it's fair for the companies to ask the question. It would be fair to ask (say) whether you had a test that returned abnormalities. My GP was against the question too - she felt strongly that generally people who initiated tests were far less likely to have something wrong than people who come forward with symptoms and then have a test.

Anyway, if she offered to do this for me, then maybe it is unofficial procedure among GPs even if it is not 100% legit.

Rebecca
 
Re: Life Assurance

While it may be unpalatable, it seems fair enough to me that an insurance company may want to apply different charges to individuals who have had STD testing (which has almost certainly got to indicate some level of indulgence in risky behavours) compared to inviduals who have never had STD testing. If you really don't like this question, find another insurance company.
 
Re: Life Assurance

".....who have had STD testing (which has almost certainly got to indicate some level of indulgence in risky behavours)"

Why does it?

I don't agree that it means that people who have been tested have indulged in anymore risky behaviour than those foolish people who have never had an STD test.

Mightn't it be some of the people who have never been tested are infecting others out there?

I think it is unfair for insurance companies to load more charges on an individual who has been tested as I feel that that person is being more careful than people who never get checked out.
 
Re: Life Assurance

Hi Veron,

I think it is unfair for insurance companies
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.

Unfortunatley, insurance companies exist to make money and not (neccessarily) to be fair.

Are insurance companies entilted to ask you whether you have had genetic testing?

ajapale
 
Re: Life Assurance

Ajapale

I understand what you are saying and although I agree, I was annoyed that some people assume that if you are tested you are indulging in risky behaviour.

I think that this is backward thinking and that people should always get themselves checked out.

Its the notion that insurance companies would load a person even if the tests were negative, that I think is crazy.
 
Re: Life Assurance

Hi Veron - Read my post carefully. I didn't say that someone who had a test was more likely to be involved in risky behavours than someone who did not have a test. I said that having a test is an indicator of some level of participation in risky behaviours - Do you disagree with this point?
 
Re: Life Assurance

"I said that having a test is an indicator of some level of participation in risky behaviors. Do you disagree with this point?"

Hi Rainday,

I do disagree. I don't think that all people who have had a test are more likely to think that they have a chance of getting an STD.

I feel it should be common practice that anyone who is sexually active should be tested, whatever their indulgences are.

That is why I think that it is not right if insurance companies preload an application on the grounds of STD testing.

Do you not agree with this?
 
Proxy (Poxy) Measures for Life Assurance

hi rainy and veron,

In certain US states it is compulsory to undergo syphills blood tests before you can get a marriage licence.

Im inclined to agree with veron, if you go for an STD test it could be a singn that you are engaging in risky activty but also it could be a sign that you are a hypocondriac or worse still an american?

I dont like the used of thes proxy (poxy!) measures. Why not simply ask " have you ever been treated for STD's?".

ajapale
 
Re: Proxy (Poxy) Measures for Life Assurance

I do disagree. I don't think that all people who have had a test are more likely to think that they have a chance of getting an STD.
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That's not the question I asked. I didn't ask anything about what the person thinks about their chances of getting an STD. Please don't twist my words.

What I asked was "having a test is an indicator of some level of participation in risky behaviours - Do you disagree with this point?". Please explain why anyone would volunteer for an STD test if they had NEVER indulged in risky behavours? [& I don't think the ajapale American hypochondriac example is a very realistic answer]
 
Re: Proxy (Poxy) Measures for Life Assurance

Hi rainy, still not convinced...

In many countries pregnant women undergo compulsory std testing.

I suppose pregnancy could also be used as a proxy measure. After all it shows a propensity for "risky behaviour".

"having a test is an indicator of some level of participation in risky behaviours "
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I disagree with your statement...having a test is indicates having a test no more no less and it is wrong for insurance companies to draw inference from it.

ajapale
 
Re: Proxy (Poxy) Measures for Life Assurance

In many countries pregnant women undergo compulsory std testing.
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Let's just stick to Ireland, shall we?
having a test is indicates having a test no more no less
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What percentage of those people who have volunteered for STD tests have NOT had unsafe sex, do you reckon?
 
Medical/Lifestyle Questions and Underwriting Standards

Medical/Lifestyle Questions and Underwriting Standards

Hi rainy,

Do you think it is ok for life assurance companies to ask applicants questions concerning whether they have sought STD counseling from health care professionals?

Having got the answer to those questions is it ok for them to make adverse underwriting decision based on the answers?

ajapale

The following British joint Publication (Medical Information and Insurance - The Joint Guidelines from the British Medical Association and the Association of British Insurers) is interesting:


Sexually Transmitted Infection (STI)
6.1 Both the ABI and the BMA are aware that people may be discouraged from seeing their GPs about STIs because of the possibility that information about such infection will be revealed to other parties.
6.2 The guidelines indicate that the ABI and the BMA believe where there is an isolated incident of an STI (or even multiple episodes of non-serious STIs) with no long-term health implications, insurers should not request, and doctors should not reveal, any such information. Other incidents of STIs may have significance from an underwriting point of view and should be revealed as long as the patient's consent covers this.
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Re: Medical/Lifestyle Questions and Underwriting Standards

Hi Ajapale - Does this mean that you're not going to answer my question (What percentage of those people who have volunteered for STD tests have NOT had unsafe sex, do you reckon?)

To answer yours;

Do you think it is ok for life assurance companies to ask applicants questions concerning whether they have sought STD counseling from health care professionals?
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Yes, absolutely. If they don't, the end result is that those who have NEVER indulged in risky behaviour and NEVER had an STD test are going to have to pay the same rates as those bold boys & girls who have screwed around. Let's zip forward in time 10 years down the road when you are running Ajapale Insurance Inc - Will you be happy to offer insurance at the same rates to those who have had STD tests and those who have not had STD tests?

STD tests - Penalty points for clubbers!
 
Re: Medical/Lifestyle Questions and Underwriting Standards

Hi Rainy,

What percentage of those people who have volunteered for STD tests have NOT had unsafe sex, do you reckon?
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I dont know.... 75%?.

Will you be happy to offer insurance at the same rates to those who have had STD tests and those who have not had STD tests?
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If I were a Life Assurance Company Executive (and I'm not) I would behave a manner that would maximise my shareholders return consistent with ethical, regulatory and social responsibilities.

No, I wouldnt ask whether people had tested for STD's (or Genetic factors). I would ask whether they had ever been treated for a list of diseases and conditions which have a direct bearing on the provision of Life Assurance.

Asking questions relating to testing and seeking professional help is wrong. Making adverse underwriting decisions based on these questions is wrong. Why? because it may lead people not to seek medical help for conditons which if left untreated can have a devastating effect on peoples lives.

ajapale
 
Re: Medical/Lifestyle Questions and Underwriting Standards

Rainyday - there is a flaw in your original line of thinking.

"While it may be unpalatable, it seems fair enough to me that an insurance company may want to apply different charges to individuals who have had STD testing (which has almost certainly got to indicate some level of indulgence in risky behavours) compared to inviduals who have never had STD testing"

The flaw is that having a test *is not* an indicator of someone who has indulged in risky behaviour. It can be an indicator of someone who has been exposed to risk, but that is a different matter, especially if the test comes back negative.

If having sex is a risky activity then something like 80% of adults had better get ready for an insurance loading.

The person who is tested may only ever have had one partner and may at all times have practised safe sex. Their partner, however, may have had different habits. Getting a test in this case is only logical and sensible, and does not indicate someone who indulges in risky behaviours. Unless having sex is a risky behaviour in which case a more suitable question would be "Have you ever had sex (with someone else) ?"

I don't know if the question is also on the relevant application form, but they should really have a question (with a positive loading) along the lines of "Do you attend a doctor for early diagnostics and tests to ensure your health is maintained and catch serious conditions before they develop into costly conditions requiring us to pay out on your policy, or do you sit around, drink lots of beer and wait until you can't make it to the fridge before seeking emergency medical assistance ?"

z
 
Re: Medical/Lifestyle Questions and Underwriting Standards

I dont know.... 75%?.
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That's where we disagree - I'd reckon it is 0%. I can't foresee any reasonable circumstance where someone who had never induldged in unsafe sex practices would volunteer for an STD test. I'd be interested to hear your explanation for why this 75% of people volunteered for their STD tests.

I guess that when you do set up Ajapale Insurance Inc, you can run it as you see fit. If I were running RainyDay Insurance Inc and the subsequent claims where coming out of my pocket, I wouldn't see anything wrong with asking this question. In the great capitalist free market system, you would of course be free to choose other insurance companies whose policies suit you better if you see fit (but perhaps my policies will be cheaper if I get to cherry-pick the lowest risk customers)
 
Re: Medical/Lifestyle Questions and Underwriting Standards

Sorry rainy , I misunderstood the double negative in your question I meant to guess 25%.

That 25% would be comprised of people who ask for a test because their partner is at risk, people who imagine they are at risk and certain medical and emergency personel who may have been exposed to risk.

I'm a bit puzzled here, rainy, are you suggesting that Life Assurance companies operate without any sense of ethical or social responsibility? Can they ask any question under the sun? and base their underwriting decisions on the response? Should they be allowed ask about race, sexual orientation, religion, colour of eyes, membership of travelling community, political affiliation, income etc. Im sure I could sit down with an acutuary and get more than a casual association with life expectancy on many or most of them. I could make money on it ...but it would still be wrong.

ajapale
 
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