Legalise drugs.

[Caveat]

That's not the experience of the Netherlands. Just because it's legal, doesn't 'encourage' it. Nobody is telling the kids to go and smoke dope.

Yes - it's interesting; statistically the Dutch themselves are not big smokers at all.

Most European countries have far more regular users than in The Netherlands. Go into any coffeeshop in Amsterdam and you'll quickly see that about 90% of the clientèle are tourists - without them, I'm certain the majority of these places would have to close through lack of business.

 

[Ciaraella]

Very simple - anyone arrested for a public order or dangerous driving offence or obviously under the influence or openly taking drugs gets drug tested ala sports stars. You test positive, you get a mandatory 6 months in prison during which time you undergo a mandatory rehab programme. No exceptions, no excuses. You take drugs, you do the time. Double it for each successive offence.

So how do you differentiate between drugs and alcohol (I know alcohol is also a drug but it's legal)? How do you distinguish between someone who has one joint and gets tested and someone whio has comsumed a bottle of vodka? Where is the line drawn? This is totally unenforceable.

 

[truthseeker]

Yes - it's interesting; statistically the Dutch themselves are not big smokers at all.

Most European countries have far more regular users than in The Netherlands. Go into any coffeeshop in Amsterdam and you'll quickly see that about 90% of the clientèle are tourists - without them, I'm certain the majority of these places would have to close through lack of business.

There are always going to be 3 classes of people with respect to drugs.
Those who want to use all the time, junkies. Small percentage tbh.
Those who want to use now and again.
Those who never want to use.

I dont think these 3 classes of people change depending on the legality of the drug. What I do think happens is in countries like Ireland that the occasional users tend to use when they can to 'make up for' times when they cant use at all because buying illegally is an unreliable method of getting ones hands on. Whereas the Dutch dont have the 'need' to use whenever they can - because they can use whenever they want.

 

[Tomodinhio]

The OP stated that he wanted all Drugs leagalised, the netherlands have legalised grass, There is a big difference between smoking a bit of grass and shooting up on the street.

I think anyboby who advicates legalsing heroine, cocaine, crack etc is off their head.

All highly addictive and deadly drugs.

Maybe we could raise some revenue from selling them legaly, but i wouldnt be too happy with drug money being used to pay for public services.

Addicts are people who need help, you dont give a kid the key to the sweet shop.
One way of helping addicts is by making drugs illegal. The next is to support them with rehab clinics etc.

We legalise these drugs, what hope will they have of coming clean, im sure its hard enough to kick these habbits without someone turning around making the stuff legal.

By legalising drugs we would become part of one of societys biggest problems.

 

[truthseeker]

While I take your point that its not a very nice prospect to think of ordinary people being able to walk into the local shop and buy their government controlled heroin by the kilo...

Addicts are people who need help, you dont give a kid the key to the sweet shop.

The sweetshop doors are wide open and the goods picked clean by alcohol being legal, thousands of alcoholics in this country are at this moment in time trying to get their next drink into them.

Alcohol is highly addictive. And its deadly. Whats the difference between an alcoholic and a coke addict? One is using a legal drug and not being criminalised for it. The other is.

 

[Pique318]

'Legalising' doesn't mean 'easy to get'.

Cigarettes and Alcohol are highly addictive and deadly too but society has decreed (rightly or wrongly) that they are socially acceptable or just too difficult to outlaw.
spamspamspam should IMO be legal, the same way as those 2, with the same restrictions on age and availability.

Heroin is a strange one. One can easily work, live, contribute to society etc. while one is addicted. Also, unless you OD on it, you can easily make a full physical recovery once clean. The main problem with Heroin addiction is the quality of the heroin and the crap it's cut with (including sand, rat poison etc.) and the fact that junkies share dirty needles and contract Hep C & HIV.
Ecstacy and Cocaine are also adulterated with god-knows-what muck too (including Heroin), and makes the use of such drugs very risky behaviour.

Heroin addictions are treated with Methadone which is just as addictive, but socially acceptable 'because a doctor gave it to them'.

If Heroin was licensed, quality controlled and administered to addicts (the vast majority of whom WANT to come off it), in conjunction with a support program to help them clean up as they reduced their dependence, we would see a reduction in the amount of addicts in Ireland. Of that I am convinced.

The days of shouting the old mantra of 'lock 'em up, bleedin druggies' are gone and we should see that it may have started as a laugh but people quickly become a slave to Heroin and need proper help, not to be chased underground so they can OD out of the way of the nice middle-classes.

 

[Tomodinhio]

Alcohol is highly addictive. And its deadly. Whats the difference between an alcoholic and a coke addict? One is using a legal drug and not being criminalised for it. The other is.

I understand where your coming from, but why make coke legal just because alcohol is. Alcohol has been part of our society for hundreds of years and we have problems because of it (especially seen as most irish people drink too much of it) why should we alow cocaine to become a sociably accepable way of getting of your face aswell.

 

[truthseeker]

I understand where your coming from, but why make coke legal just because alcohol is. Alcohol has been part of our society for hundreds of years and we have problems because of it (especially seen as most irish people drink too much of it) why should we alow cocaine to become a sociably accepable way of getting of your face aswell.

Do you think that as a society we have a moral responsibility to prevent people from getting off their faces - if that is what they want to do?

This is where I get tied up in knots. On the one hand I already hate to see the effects all around me of irresponsible drinking.

On the other hand I think that people should be allowed to make an informed choice to put whatever they choose into their own bodies.

And I really do not believe that legalising drugs would result in the downfall of society as we know it.

 

[redbhoy]

As mature citizens we should be allowed do what we want to our own bodies so long as its not to the detriment of others.

 

[secman]

As mature citizens we should be allowed do what we want to our own bodies so long as its not to the detriment of others.

Therein lies the rub " not to the detriment of others". This my friend is almost impossible

Secman

 

[Purple]

As mature citizens we should be allowed do what we want to our own bodies so long as its not to the detriment of others.

We live in a country where there is no real culture in personal responsibility; if you trip walking down the street or make stupid financial decisions it has to be someone else’s fault. There's no way your reasoned and mature attitude will catch on.

 

[Caveat]

We live in a country where there is no real culture in personal responsibility; if you trip walking down the street or make stupid financial decisions it has to be someone else’s fault. There's no way your reasoned and mature attitude will catch on.

+1

It seems that together with the UK we are almost alone in Europe on this.

In e.g. Spain, France, Poland if you trip on a bit of pavement - even if it is poorly finished, unless the circumstances are extreme, basically the local authority/legal position is "well sorry, but it's not a perfect world - watch where you're going in the future"

 

[mathepac]

... the netherlands have legalised grass, ...

Your post is inaccurate and misleading. A simple bit of research could have prevented you confusing "tolerence of use" or "lack of enforcement" with "legalisation" and potentially misleading others.

There are a number of reasons why the Netherlands on its own cannot and will not legalise spamspamspam use, sale or possession.

 

[mathepac]

... Alcohol ... most irish people drink too much of it) ...

There are no statistics or studies that I am familiar with that back up this assertion - maybe you could provide links?

 

[Purple]

There are no statistics or studies that I am familiar with that back up this assertion - maybe you could provide links?

Personally I drink 5 or 6 times a week but keep it within 20 units (a little often and all that).

 

[Pique318]

Personally I drink 5 or 6 times a week but keep it within 20 units (a little often and all that).

Ah jaysus Purple, 20 units 5 or 6 times a week is a bit much

I can resist everything, except temptation, huh ?

 

[csirl]

See above. The ONLY thing that will happen in this scenario is that you criminalise a huge portion of the populace. What you're suggesting is the same failed policy followed by the US.

Disagree. History has shown us that people will make drastic changes to their behaviour if there are consequences - including with addictive substances. Look at what the anti-drink driving measures have done over the past couple of decades. Used to be acceptable to drive after 3-4 drinks. When Gardai started enforcing lower limits, and people started being proscecuted, behaviour changed very quickly. I would see the same thing happening with drugs. If you're going to jail if you are arrested for "drugged and dissorderly" or "drugged driving", you will probably lose your job and be branded in your community. As with drunk driving, far fewer people will be willing to risk the consequences.

I dont think this policy has failed anywhere because I dont think it has been used in any western country. Certainly doesnt happen in most parts of the US.

The idea that you can get people to change their bad habits to be "good citizens" or through "education" is living in fantasy land.

 

[redbhoy]

Disagree. History has shown us that people will make drastic changes to their behaviour if there are consequences - including with addictive substances. Look at what the anti-drink driving measures have done over the past couple of decades. Used to be acceptable to drive after 3-4 drinks. When Gardai started enforcing lower limits, and people started being proscecuted, behaviour changed very quickly. I would see the same thing happening with drugs. If you're going to jail if you are arrested for "drugged and dissorderly" or "drugged driving", you will probably lose your job and be branded in your community. As with drunk driving, far fewer people will be willing to risk the consequences.

I dont think this policy has failed anywhere because I dont think it has been used in any western country. Certainly doesnt happen in most parts of the US.

The idea that you can get people to change their bad habits to be "good citizens" or through "education" is living in fantasy land.

Has the "Just Say No" and Zero Tolerance campaigns worked for recreational drugs in the US. Nope. Just look at the amount of its citizens holed up in the prisons over there.
spamspamspam use increased in the US after it was made illegal.
Drugs werent made illegal to keep the populace safe. They were made illegal to keep major corporations rich. Do a quick google about the History of spamspamspam or Marijuana in the US.
I see your point with the drink driving but I dont think you can compare like with like when it comes to a person getting into a heavy mechanical device to a normal joe soap sitting having a spliff in front of his TV.
Drugs arent a problem! The misuse of drugs are. There are a lot of idiots out there who do drugs and misuse them but why criminalise someone who uses drugs sensibly when you let off some clown who gets drunk on alcohol and causes all manner of trouble for himself and society?

What is the big fear with legalising drugs anyway? What harm would it do to you?

 

[Pique318]

http://wine-scamp.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/helenlovejoy.jpg

 

[shnaek]

+1

It seems that together with the UK we are almost alone in Europe on this.

In e.g. Spain, France, Poland if you trip on a bit of pavement - even if it is poorly finished, unless the circumstances are extreme, basically the local authority/legal position is "well sorry, but it's not a perfect world - watch where you're going in the future"

Hear, hear. This is a really crucial point with regards to Ireland - zero personal responsibility. We're always looking for someone to blame. We'll never be a mature responsible nation as long as this mentality persists. We got to stand up and start being responsible for ourselves.