Legal fees - Probate

[gnf_ireland]

As regards your will. You should inform your executors that there is no need for them to use the solicitor who holds the will to do the probate as it would be impossible for dead you to inform them of the deal you had done with your solicitor.

Agree, and I will instruct them to get 5 quotes before proceeding with the probate work.
As regard informing them - I have supplied a letter of wishes to the executors, and I can of course update that to show the details etc. But yes, you are right - probably need to just instruct them to get 5 different quotes rather than trying to sort it out before I die. Ah the joys

 

[gnf_ireland]

n your opinion. As with everything there can be complications or the job is not that straightforward. As always, people can choose to do it themselves but I am more than prepared to pay to make sure the job is done correctly by a professional.

@elcato Yes of course it could be more complicated and the job not as straight forward - but maybe the quote should not start with the worst possible case and maybe treat difficulties as they arise
The 24k quote was provided once the full estate was assessed etc, and was the first time any sort of quote was provided. Given the detail of the estate, and a comparison I have with a similar sized estate where the person died intestate with no children so the estate had to be sold and divided amount 21 first cousins - the charge in that case of half this estate, with one beneficiary and no sale of any assets.

Most people, even on this site, do not want to hassle of doing it themselves. Most people off this site are not financially literate enough (in general) to be able to do it themselves. So yes, they will default and get a solicitor to do it for them.

The problem in this case is the family insisted on using the family solicitor (we have used them for years without an issue), and then get landed with a 24k bill. I personally think the solicitors should have to advise any family of some indicative quote before they start the work, as a benchmark.

 

[Bronte]

Agree, and I will instruct them to get 5 quotes before proceeding with the probate work.
As regard informing them - I have supplied a letter of wishes to the executors, and I can of course update that to show the details etc. But yes, you are right - probably need to just instruct them to get 5 different quotes rather than trying to sort it out before I die. Ah the joys

What kind of things do you have the letter of wishes if you don't mind my asking.

 

[elcato]

Yes of course it could be more complicated and the job not as straight forward - but maybe the quote should not start with the worst possible case and maybe treat difficulties as they arise

I'm not disagreeing with you but my comment was based on people using terms in this thread such as 'what should be a very simple job' and 'total ripoff' and 'taking advantage of'. Solicitors have souls too you know !

 

[cbreeze]

Before a solicitor is chosen the OP should contact the local probate office and request the information pack which is provided for personal applicants. I've been through the process myself and it is very straightforward. The fees are fixed and you can pay by card - information is on the Courts Service website, plus the forms which can be downloaded. The OP would have to do a bit of research for the solicitors anyway so he/she might has well save the money.

 

[gnf_ireland]

Solicitors have souls too you know !

I think you mean to say some solicitors have souls I am not convinced all do - but probably no different to most professions !

 

[gnf_ireland]

What kind of things do you have the letter of wishes if you don't mind my asking.

Hi Bronte,
As the estate will be put into trust for my two children in the event both my wife and I pass away, the letter of wishes is to provide some guidance to the executors. We also have done another one for the nominated trustees. We know neither are mandatory to follow the details of the letters, but its more to give guidance to both on what our wishes would be. I plan to update them every 5 years (its just handing them to the solicitor and asking for the other one back!!)

There are four main elements to the executor one:
- Instructions on what I would like to do with the family home - i.e. sell it or rent it out for future use by the girls.
- My accountants details to support the closure/sale of the company, as well as historical tax items to consider
- The request to get 3 quotes on any costs to be incurred by the estate greater than 1k
- A password for shared drive account where I update a list of assets roughly once a quarter ! The file itself is also password protected and includes that password as well. The idea is the executors have a rough idea of the various assets and can track back through the bank statements as needed since the last time the file was updated. Otherwise, with everyone online (and potentially international) these days, it could be impossible to find assets

Nothing really too exciting, but more to make their role easier...

 

[Thirsty]

To be honest, as far as the letter of wishes go, you trust your executors with regards to your children, so you might as well trust them on financial decisions.

You can't control your affairs from beyond the grave.

Far better to write down your feelings on funeral services, what you would like done with your Lego Collection, momentoes to friends etc.

 

[gnf_ireland]

you trust your executors with regards to your children

Absolutely not - the nominated guardians are trusted with regards to the children, not the executors

You can't control your affairs from beyond the grave.

As I said in the above note, the detail is more about providing information for them to make their jobs easier. The only real request is around the family home and what to do with that.

Far better to write down your feelings on funeral services,

I seriously doubt anyone will go looking for a will prior to the funeral arrangements being made. I would hope most would wait a few days anyway, especially if both my wife and I were to pass away together !

The aim is not to control my financial affairs beyond the grave. It is simply to provide a few 'pointers' to the executors on what I would like done in certain cases, that they can take on board or not.

Each to their own of course ! I have spoken to my executors, and both have said they would appreciate the 'assistance' from beyond the grave !

 

[Bronte]

To be honest, as far as the letter of wishes go, you trust your executors with regards to your children, so you might as well trust them on financial decisions.

You can't control your affairs from beyond the grave.

That's my view of it too. If I'm trusting the guardians with my children they can do what they feel is in the best interests of my children. I'd rather they had to power to for example buy a bigger house for themselves if they are taking in my children etc. I'm more interested that my children are well taken care of even if it means the guardians (sibling) aren't so great with money.

But I do agree with GNF on listing the assets. And past tax returns. (actually I'll just give them my accountants details).

 

[Bronte]

Hi Bronte,
As the estate will be put into trust for my two children in the event both my wife and I pass away, the letter of wishes is to provide some guidance to the executors. We also have done another one for the nominated trustees. We know neither are mandatory to follow the details of the letters, but its more to give guidance to both on what our wishes would be. I plan to update them every 5 years (its just handing them to the solicitor and asking for the other one back!!)

There are four main elements to the executor one:
- Instructions on what I would like to do with the family home - i.e. sell it or rent it out for future use by the girls.
- My accountants details to support the closure/sale of the company, as well as historical tax items to consider
- The request to get 3 quotes on any costs to be incurred by the estate greater than 1k
- A password for shared drive account where I update a list of assets roughly once a quarter ! The file itself is also password protected and includes that password as well. The idea is the executors have a rough idea of the various assets and can track back through the bank statements as needed since the last time the file was updated. Otherwise, with everyone online (and potentially international) these days, it could be impossible to find assets

Nothing really too exciting, but more to make their role easier...

Thanks GNF.

My view of the family home is that children can't stay in it and they have to live somewhere. So better to sell it. I wouldn't be looking for 3 quotes for 1K costs. I'd make that 5K. You get hardly anything for 1K ! And you're making the exector job more difficult (speaking as an executor !) I hope your executors are computer literate and that you don't forget to change the password on the instructions when you change it in real life ! But the list of assets and bank accounts etc is a good idea.

 

[Thirsty]

"anyone will go looking for a will prior to the funeral arrangements being made"

Letter of wishes is separate to your will; you can leave a copy with spouse / relatives etc.

 

[gnf_ireland]

If I'm trusting the guardians with my children they can do what they feel is in the best interests of my children. I'd rather they had to power to for example buy a bigger house for themselves if they are taking in my children etc. I'm more interested that my children are well taken care of even if it means the guardians (sibling) aren't so great with money.

In my case, I have separated the roles of executor, trustees and guardians. The executors are friends I trust to handle the estate and set up the trust for the children. Once that is done, that ask has been completed. Their role only kicks in if my wife is unable to perform the duties.

Given the potential size of the estate (like most people I am worth a lot more dead than alive), we were advised it was a good idea to split the trustees role from the guardian one to avoid potential issues in the future. All roles are provided by siblings, and the trustees have been informed to assist the guardians financially in any way possible, for the best interests of the children.

My view of the family home is that children can't stay in it and they have to live somewhere. So better to sell it.

This really depends on the size of the remaining estate, and at what age both myself and my wife may pass away at. If for example the girls were 15 and 17 when I pass away, there should be no reason to have to sell the house, as its likely they will have a strong emotional attachment to it. Its also very close to a number of universities, so no reason they should not wish to use if it they go to college in Dublin. If we were to pass away now (when the girls are 7 & 5), its potentially a different matter. That said, the level of life assurance both of us carry between us should mean there is absolutely no reason to have to sell the family home for financial reasons alone.

I wouldn't be looking for 3 quotes for 1K costs. I'd make that 5K. You get hardly anything for 1K ! And you're making the exector job more difficult (speaking as an executor !)

Fair enough, and its something I am likely to consider over time. The wishes can always be ignored anyway by the executors
Its more to not accept a 50k probate bill from some solicitor, without a few other quotes to compare against !!

I hope your executors are computer literate and that you don't forget to change the password on the instructions when you change it in real life

Of course !! The executors have been selected carefully

But the list of assets and bank accounts etc is a good idea.

Glad I am doing something right

 

[gnf_ireland]

Letter of wishes is separate to your will; you can leave a copy with spouse / relatives etc.

My wife is fully aware of all of this anyway, as we had a long chat about it at the time, and also had another one after one of our parents passed away recently. If both of us pass away, I would prefer the families focus on the girls needed during that time. If all of us pass away, then sure that will be the least of everyone's worries !!