Legal apprenticeship: any tips on trying to find a trainee solicitor job

Working in one of the biggest firms in the country, I can assure you that any legal firm with a proper IP division would be falling over themselves to hire someone with a science/engineering background. My advice would be to take a look at the Patents Office website and then take a look at the Register of Patent Agents and the Register of Trademark Agents. Take a note of the firms they work for and then contact them directly for advice.

Please note that you do NOT need to be a solicitor to be a patent agent. As such, the FE1's may be a waste of time if that's the road you want to go down. In the same time period it takes to qualify as a solicitor, you can become a registered patent agent. With this qualification, you will walk into any top law firm (or go inhouse).

The reason that none of the partners etc in the big law firms have science backgrounds is due to the fact that until the last few years, the overwhelming majority of these people would have come with a law background. This is due to the fact that otherwise they would have been required to do the FE-1s. The end of FE1 exemptions has led to a much more disparate set of backgrounds to those entering the profession.

IMHO a top-tier firm will look more favourably on somebody with a solid background in a specialist discipline (e.g. science, engineering, finance) than someone with a regular law degree. This is especially the case if you apply with your FE1s in the bag, so that they are not concerned whether you can transfer your skills to the law.
 
do you would it look good on my appliction form to have temped for year as a legal secretary or paralegal?? I'm really trying to look for anything extra to put on that form to stand out above the rest.
 
Well I have 5 years experience working in law, as well as a postgrad in business and law, and a primary degree. I never even got so much as an acknowledgement from any of the "big 5" when I applied for traineeships with them a couple of years ago. I don't know what they're looking for really.
 
you'll be hard pressed to be taken on as a paralegal. no firm will want to touch you if you've sat/are sitting fe1's. it used the back door in, but not anymore. try and get into summer progs in the top 10 or so, also most of the bigger firms like you to have a masters.
 
lawstudentjq said:
do you would it look good on my appliction form to have temped for year as a legal secretary or paralegal?? I'm really trying to look for anything extra to put on that form to stand out above the rest.
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Hi

I think that any legal experience is thought highly of when applying for traineeships. I had an awful interview experience recently but the interviewers were clearly taken with the fact that I work as a legal secretary.

Best of luck

Brenda
 
thanks for the advice given, I'm currently studying for the fe1's. is there any other job that would look good on the application form. i just don't have the time or money to go back and do a masters really.
 
Dats_right, NiallP, thanks for the informative posts.

NiallP said:
Please note that you do NOT need to be a solicitor to be a patent agent. As such, the FE1's may be a waste of time if that's the road you want to go down. In the same time period it takes to qualify as a solicitor, you can become a registered patent agent. With this qualification, you will walk into any top law firm (or go inhouse).
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As I understand it, patent agents are allowed to practise and argue cases in their national patent offices and the EPO if they’ve passed the relevant exams. Some jurisdictions (e.g. England) allow them to practise in front of the High Court, but only for patent related matters.

Is this the case in Ireland?

If so then it probably doesn’t matter whether one trains as a patent agent or a solicitor. However, if this is not the case I was thinking it might be better to train as a solicitor and specialise in patent law later. I’d imagine there would be more flexibility career‑wise down the road.
 
Could somebody tell me what are considered to be the best law degrees/colleges from a trainee application point of view? Is trinity worth the extra year????
 
I got called for 2 intervies in Jan with MOPs and Frys, the interviews are on the same day but there is also a pre interview reception for both the night before at exactly the same time, i obviously cant attned both but feel it will reflect badly on me in regard to whichever presentation I dont turn up to, anyone in the same boat or have any advice??
 
There'll be hundreds of people at these and in the greater scheme of things it won't matter that you didn't go. If they want you enough, they'll take you regardless. You could cover yourself if you know someone that is going to one, you could go to the other, get the names of people who talk at the pre-interview and drop the name(s) at your interview if you wish without actually saying that you were AT the pre-interview which you didn't attend (if that makes sense). Frys will (probably) ask you if you've done interviews/planning to do interviews anywhere else. I don't know about MOP.
 
While I'd advise to rigorously prepare for both, put more effort towards fry's/ i know people in both places and fry's seem like the better option
 
Hi djhoose, also have interviews for Frys and Mops but pre-interview receptions are on 3rd and 4th January respectively, perhaps was a typo?
EI123 would recommend Law & Accounting in Limerick; it's a double qualification and seems to be well respected within the legal sphere. Course also offers you a seven month placement in yr 3 within a legal firm (subject to interview of course!!).
 
Ana said:
While I'd advise to rigorously prepare for both, put more effort towards fry's/ i know people in both places and fry's seem like the better option
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this would be the same company that is universally known as "frytanic"? General consensus would be that MOP are more highly regarded
 
for sabina and djhoose, and indeed any others in top5 companies

i am sinking under the weight of pfo's at the minute.

how did you manage to secure interviews.

do you have 2.1's/1's law degrees?

all 8 exams?

varied legal work experience?

or a combination of all above??

also on the legal experience front to all trainees/solicitors present, would working as a legal secretary help or hinder me?
ive been advised not to go down that road as it might reflect badly

is this true? would legal exec be more conducive?
 
NiallP said:
this would be the same company that is universally known as "frytanic"? General consensus would be that MOP are more highly regarded
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I just meant I know people in both places. Fry's seem to treat their trainees better.
 
fe1fever said:
also on the legal experience front to all trainees/solicitors present, would working as a legal secretary help or hinder me?
ive been advised not to go down that road as it might reflect badly

is this true? would legal exec be more conducive?
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It's highly unlikely you'll be taken on as a legal exec unless you've already got pretty substantial experience so you'll need to start out as a clerk or legal secretary anyway. I don't see how working as a legal secretary can 'hinder' you? Any experience in a legal environment will stand to you.

It also baffles me as to why there is such a fixation with getting into the big commercial law firms. If it's from a financial point of view I could possibly understand it but work and experience wise you'd probably be better off in a small to medium firm.
 
Bazoo said:
It also baffles me as to why there is such a fixation with getting into the big commercial law firms. If it's from a financial point of view I could possibly understand it but work and experience wise you'd probably be better off in a small to medium firm.
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In terms of quality of work, a small to medium firm probably offers more responsibility earlier. On the other hand, the work itself may not be of the best quality.

A large commercial firm is preferable for a number of reasons:

1: Retention rate - once you're in you're grand in terms of being kept on given the expansion rate of the top 5 at the moment. Whether its in your preferred area is another question, although one that should be put to bed by the quality of your work in that area.
2: Many small/medium size firms take on much too many trainees - breeding a dog-eat-dog culture. Beware of a medium size firm that takes on more than 10 trainees - chances are at least 5 of them will be left high and dry come qualification.
3: Many small to medium firms (especially small) are rife with nepotism. If you are a trainee alongside the bosses god-daughter and there is one job available...get packing. You don't have a chance. You only need to take a look at the Law Directory to confirm this fact. Say what you like about the big (impersonal) commercial firms, but they do operate on a meritocratic basis.
4: Even if you don;t get your preferred area, the status of having trained in a Top 5 firm will assure you a good job elsewhere. This is a fact in the same way that most top firms prefer to look at graduates of the top universities before they look at DITs. This unfortunately is true.
5: Money - obviously a benefit. Some of the mid-size firms actually offer more money than Top 5 firms. However the caveat is that these firms are usually of the type mentioned in Point 2 (above).

In terms of what you need to get in the door of the Top 5, I would think that the general rule of thumb is:
1: If you have a first in any degree you'll get an interview (regardless of FE1s)
2: If you have a 2:1 in law (or business and law etc) in one of the top universities (e.g UCD, TCD; UCC; UL; UCG) you'll get an interview regardless of Fe1s
3: A 2:1 in a non-law degree, or a 2:1 in law from a DIT etc. will require to have at least 4 FE1s in order to secure an interview. Decent work experience and a rounded cv will always help.
4: A masters in law from one of the top universities will get you an interview without FE-1s
5:Anything outside the above is pretty unlikely to get you far.

Hope this helps
 
Hi Fe1Fever, this is my second year applying so don't know how qualified I am to give advice! However, I do have a 2.1 degree, legal experience in a medium sized law firm and have passed all eight FE1's. Last year, I was called for interview with MOP but didn't reach 2nd interview stage (v nervous), this year I've been called for all three top firms I've applied to. I don't know for certain what may be the difference between this year and last, but I am guessing that it may be connected to the fact that I have completed all FE1's and was promoted in work (major Irish bank). I was also as meticulous as I could be with the application forms and highlighted the legal element of all work experience to date. From myself, and friends in the legal profession, I would definately say that the main element required is perserverence...possibly not what any of us want to hear when seeking an apprenticeship....if not successful this year, am hoping third time lucky!!! :)
 
That's great thanks so much,

I have a 2:1 comm - NUI, also legal diploma. I had 3 FE1's at time of applying. Currently have 6.

So by next year I'll have 6-8, and hopefully some work experience which should make a BIG difference.

on the subject of work exp - would large financial institution be better than some tiny solicitors firm?
 
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