Landlord accused of stealing??

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dp0238

Guest
Just for background - When we were signing the lease (only 2 weeks ago) my tenants made a verbal point of saying they wouldn't smoke in the hse under any circumstances, they thought it was disgusting.​

 I called out to the hse last nite with their permission when they weren't there to measure the bath for a shower curtain and found at least 4 full ash trays scattered around the hse and insane no's of empty cigarette packets, rolling tobacco etc. i was obviously a bit surprised to say the least but very annoyed at their deliberate lie.

 Tenant called me later on to find out if i had called to the hse or not, - told him i had. Then i brought up the fact that "they" had said they wouldn't smoke and why were they ignoring this??

 He appologised and said they had friends over for dinner the night b4 and there were people in the hse smoking (def not true i feel - there was a full ash tray in the bedroom from 1 night?) Gave me his word that it would not happen again...

 A few minutes later he rang back to ask if i had been in any of their rooms at all? I told them i had because i opened all the windows for the time i was there to try air the place a bit.
 He then continued along the lines of the following:

 "Its just that you understand that our rooms are our private place and you should not be in there, I am sure i had 200e in my drawer, my fiancetells me i had and now i cannot seem to find it. Now i am not saying it was you or anything, but she tells me it was there and now i cannot find it and you see what i am saying..."
 You see our rooms are our private place and you should not be in there and you will know for the future. It is strange about the 200e but i am not saying it was you.."

 As you may guess I'm not a very happy camper with this extremely underhanded way of trying to turn this back on me. I didn't quite no how to respond other than to assure him i wouldn't do something like that. But in hind sight i am sure i am well within my rights as I entered the property under there knowledge and permission and once that is the case i am entitled to walk in and out of every room - bar someone being asleep in the room.

 Btw i won't be entering the hse without them there again and if i have to i'll bring someone with as a witness!

 Think i'll probably give them the benefit of the doubt this time but wondered if anyone had any idea what might happen if it turned nasty at some point in the future?

 For example could the theft stand up and do i have anything to be worried about on that front?

 Am i mad to give them a second chance when there credibility is so clearly questionable (After Only 2 Weeks)?

 Many thanks for your views :confused:
 
I think due to them braking the contract rules by allowing smoking in the house you could be in your rights to terminate the lease,
I personally would if I could terminate, read up on your contract. I would not worry about the accuasation but if it was me I would report anyway to the police as a safey net.
 
dp0238 said:
He then continued along the lines of the following:

 "Its just that you understand that our rooms are our private place and you should not be in there, I am sure i had 200e in my drawer, my fiancetells me i had and now i cannot seem to find it. Now i am not saying it was you or anything, but she tells me it was there and now i cannot find it and you see what i am saying..."
 You see our rooms are our private place and you should not be in there and you will know for the future. It is strange about the 200e but i am not saying it was you.."

 As you may guess I'm not a very happy camper with this extremely underhanded way of trying to turn this back on me.
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Are you sure that this is what he was trying to do? After all it sounds like he was at pains to point out that he did not suspect you of the alleged theft of the money.
 
Personally I would be very wary of this tenant. If I had € 200 in my drawer that went missing I would be more annoyed about it than he appears to be - which leads me to think he is saying this (as in making it up) to try to put you in your place somewhat and telling you to stay out of his bedroom on your preagreed visits ("you will know for the future").
But that is just me (cynic that I am at times) - some others would accept what he says at face value.
 
Thanks for the replies!

dp0238 said:
Now i am not saying it was you or anything, but she tells me it was there and now i cannot find it and you see what i am saying..."​
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Clubman

what was clear from the conversation and may not be clear form the post is that the enphases was not so much on the €200 missing as the point that I should not be in their rooms - and even more so not to mess with them...

They are extremely shrewd characters and were extremely nice at all times during viewings etc., which is what worries me most now - if they are not what they seemed and they are as crafty as they are am i better to try get rid of them??

How many formal warnings do you need to give before you can evict a tenant?

Thanks again
 
Get on to your solicitor & get proper legal advice as to (1) how to evict these people (2) how to defend yourself against the obviously unfounded but still sinister stealing allegation.

If I were you I would not publicly disclose any more details of your situation on the off chance that you are forewarning and forearming your tenants.
 
Since you have presumably, as is your responsibility as a landlord, registered with the PRTB it might be an idea to use their dispute resolution process to deal with this matter?
 
Point taken about forewarning Ubiquitous.

Leaving the legal side out of it, am I crazy to give the tenant a second chance?
 
dodo said:
I think due to them braking the contract rules by allowing smoking in the house you could be in your rights to terminate the lease,
I personally would if I could terminate, read up on your contract. I would not worry about the accuasation but if it was me I would report anyway to the police as a safey net.
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all fine to state on AAM, but....
dp0238 said:
a verbal point of saying they wouldn't smoke in the hse under any circumstances, they thought it was disgusting.
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it was only a verbal agreement, so not worth much than your word against their...so do not see on which grounds you could terminate the contract.
 
I was pretty lucky when I was renting, but it never ceased to amaze me when friends told me what landlords would do when they dropped in for a legitimate reason and then proceeded do things like open windows to air the place, or 'do a bit of a tidy-up', even leave notes complaining about dirty clothes on the floor in one situation.

You were given express permission by your tenants under the terms of the lease to enter their premises for the purpose of measuring up the shower - nothing else.

They are absolutely within their rights to insist that you do not enter their bedrooms - how many of us would be happy with a stranger entering our bedrooms when we're not there?

If you do not want smoking on the premises you should have inserted it in the lease agreement - given that it seems you settled instead for a verbal assurance, you really have no right to complain - they are doing nothing illegal, nor are they breaking the terms of their lease - in fact, they could rightly argue that you did.

Perhaps suggest to them an addendum to the lease agreement regarding smoking, in return for you agreeing to respect their privacy in future?
 
I would suggest don't ever go into their house unless they are there.

Accept that they smoke. You have a choice;

1. Evict them (under what grounds?) and go to the trouble of finding new tenants - who might be worse.

2. Just re-paint the place at the end of their tenancy.

I'd be inclined to go for the re-paint option.
 
I'd check the tenancy agreement before taking any action dp0238. Most tenancy agreements will contain terms regarding a tenants right to 'quite enjoyment' of the property, I believe that this right is statutory in fact. I would be very surprised if the TA did not also have terms stating that the landlord covenants to provide a period of notice prior to obtaining access to the property.
 
I had a slightly similar situation. Tenant 1 rang me up one day complaining that there had been a fight in the house when she was not there. This had spilt over into her downstairs bedroom leaving blood over the carpet and a mess in her bedroom. She told the other tenants that she had rang me. The following day I got a phone call from tenant 2 complaining that tenant 1 had left the back door open on the previous night and that her handbag which was left in the kitchen was stolen - there was nothing of value in the handbag and nothing else in the house was stolen. Similar to your case, I firmly believe that tenant 2 was making a point. I decided to keep out of the whole situation and fortunately both had moved in six months. They were both very difficult tenants -in particular tenant 2.

As regards your own situation, while I hate to preach like so many do on this forum, I too would have an issue with a landlord going into my bedroom. Still as you have acknowledged yourself, you will be more careful next time.
 
Your verbal agreement on smoking is worthless.
In relation to tenant rights, check the lease and the PTSB, as far as I am aware after the initial 6 months, tenants are entitlied to renew for up to 4 years. You need to decide whether you want these people as potential long term tenants. Use your common sense, never enter a rental property alone unless in an emergency.
 
You have violated your tenants privacy

You were there to measure for a shower curtain, nothing else. You own the house and rented it out, this does not give you the right to be nosey.
 
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