D
Dan Murray
Guest
I've been listening to Joe for last 2 days - we should, as a nation, be absolutely ashamed of our continued inhumane treatment of these unfortunate people.
Well at the risk of providing free entertainment to Firefly!
Some of the things complained about on Joe Duffy (the little I have heard) are just ludicrous. People have to queue for food, just like every canteen in the country. People only get one bottle of shampoo a month, that seems a lot to me. These silly complaints undermine any sympathy people might have for the genuinely difficult situation people in direct provision face. I have been in one particular direct provision hostel on a number of occasions and am friendly with a number of people who have come through the system. While a direct provision hostel is no 4 star hotel, the standard of accommodation that I have seen is perfectly reasonable and nothing for the Irish people to feel ashamed about.
Education up to the age of 18 is provided for children in direct provision. Not for those over 18. This seems reasonable to me.
However the idea that your life is on hold while living in direct provision must indeed be demoralising.
Who lives in direct provision? people applying for political asylum in Ireland, and people who have been refused political asylum and have appealed against that decision. People who have been granted asylum are housed by the welfare system, on the same basis as Irish citizens. Strangely people who have been granted asylum do not have access to 3rd level education on the same basis as Irish citizens, they must pay much higher overseas fees. This I think should be changed.
Some of the things complained about on Joe Duffy (the little I have heard) are just ludicrous. People have to queue for food, just like every canteen in the country. People only get one bottle of shampoo a month, that seems a lot to me. These silly complaints undermine any sympathy people might have for the genuinely difficult situation people in direct provision face. I have been in one particular direct provision hostel on a number of occasions and am friendly with a number of people who have come through the system. While a direct provision hostel is no 4 star hotel, the standard of accommodation that I have seen is perfectly reasonable and nothing for the Irish people to feel ashamed about.
Education up to the age of 18 is provided for children in direct provision. Not for those over 18. This seems reasonable to me.
However the idea that your life is on hold while living in direct provision must indeed be demoralising.
Who lives in direct provision? people applying for political asylum in Ireland, and people who have been refused political asylum and have appealed against that decision. People who have been granted asylum are housed by the welfare system, on the same basis as Irish citizens. Strangely people who have been granted asylum do not have access to 3rd level education on the same basis as Irish citizens, they must pay much higher overseas fees. This I think should be changed.
I shouldn't bite....but can't... resist 
Joe Duffy and his 1 sided view of the world from his 400k+ salary, largely out of the public purse.
Luckily 1 Irish gentleman was given a measly few minutes to paint the real picture....over 90% of Asylum Seekers are found to be bogus in their initial claim. And yet less than 2% are deported.
If anyone is in the system for more than a few months, it's because they have failed to prove their claim. They then appeal to drag it out. After that fails they start the process all over again by applying for asylum in the name of any children who are with them. And so on it goes including appeals direct to the Minister after all avenues through the courts have been exhausted.
And all through the process the real government of this country, the Legal profession, are creaming in the fees.
So a bit like the way we have dealt with mortgage arrears i.e. do nothing and just drag it out forever, we do not want to make hard decisions in this country because it might upset someone. Or it might deny the Solicitors/Barristers a chance to make more money!
So Asylum Seekers , who somehow managed to bypass all of Europe and end up in Ireland (usually without any papers- how did they get on the plane in the first place!) manage to stay on in Ireland by default.
As for the bunkum about letting them work and closing the asylum centres:
- 25% of those in Asylum are under 18 and presumably another high % are their carers. So not many workers there
- If the carers of those minors were allowed to work, they would need subsidised childcare in most cases.
- There is a housing crisis. A few hundred asylum seekers who managed to get refugee status still live in the Centres as there are no social houses available for them. Shut the Centres and then provide free houses?
- 50% of the housing waiting list in the Dublin Local Authorities area is made up of non-nationals (incl EU). Half of that figure is former asylum seekers. So no economic benefits there.
The Asylum process has always being a joke. A very expensive one to the Irish taxpayer.
Right up to EU enlargement a decade or so ago, we had Croats,Czechs,Poles etc living in Asylum Centres with asylum claims pending!!!
The number of claims this year has doubled on last year as there is a crackdown ongoing in the UK on those overstaying visas. So now we have seen the number of Pakistani and Bangladeshi males under 25's spike here as they move from Student Status in the UK to Asylum Seeker status here. And they can play the system for the next few years if they wish to do so.
Bleeding hearts like Joe and the ever outstretched hands of Barristers/Solicitors will make sure it will always be like this.
Rant over
Joe Duffy and his 1 sided view of the world from his 400k+ salary, largely out of the public purse.
Luckily 1 Irish gentleman was given a measly few minutes to paint the real picture....over 90% of Asylum Seekers are found to be bogus in their initial claim. And yet less than 2% are deported.
If anyone is in the system for more than a few months, it's because they have failed to prove their claim. They then appeal to drag it out. After that fails they start the process all over again by applying for asylum in the name of any children who are with them. And so on it goes including appeals direct to the Minister after all avenues through the courts have been exhausted.
And all through the process the real government of this country, the Legal profession, are creaming in the fees.
So a bit like the way we have dealt with mortgage arrears i.e. do nothing and just drag it out forever, we do not want to make hard decisions in this country because it might upset someone. Or it might deny the Solicitors/Barristers a chance to make more money!
So Asylum Seekers , who somehow managed to bypass all of Europe and end up in Ireland (usually without any papers- how did they get on the plane in the first place!) manage to stay on in Ireland by default.
As for the bunkum about letting them work and closing the asylum centres:
- 25% of those in Asylum are under 18 and presumably another high % are their carers. So not many workers there
- If the carers of those minors were allowed to work, they would need subsidised childcare in most cases.
- There is a housing crisis. A few hundred asylum seekers who managed to get refugee status still live in the Centres as there are no social houses available for them. Shut the Centres and then provide free houses?
- 50% of the housing waiting list in the Dublin Local Authorities area is made up of non-nationals (incl EU). Half of that figure is former asylum seekers. So no economic benefits there.
The Asylum process has always being a joke. A very expensive one to the Irish taxpayer.
Right up to EU enlargement a decade or so ago, we had Croats,Czechs,Poles etc living in Asylum Centres with asylum claims pending!!!
The number of claims this year has doubled on last year as there is a crackdown ongoing in the UK on those overstaying visas. So now we have seen the number of Pakistani and Bangladeshi males under 25's spike here as they move from Student Status in the UK to Asylum Seeker status here. And they can play the system for the next few years if they wish to do so.
Bleeding hearts like Joe and the ever outstretched hands of Barristers/Solicitors will make sure it will always be like this.
Rant over
Have you a source for that ?
Huh? Not sure I'm following you?
I think those is direct provision should be processed quickly - either grant them access and treat them the same as everyone else or send them home if they fail our tests.
Having them in limbo is a disgrace IMO and costing us a fortune to boot.
I got that from a Dail question asked last year but cannot find it online. I'll keep trying.
The only thing I can find right now on the nationality of those on the list is thie from 2011 for Fingal CoCo
http://www.herald.ie/news/over-half-on-housing-list-are-foreign-27973856.html
Hi Dan, I have never visited any area where asylum seekers live. Neither do I know somebody with first-hand knowledge of their situation.
"Continued inhumane treatment of these unfortunate people" :- Can you expand on this please? Like you said earlier you said we should be "ashamed" of what is happening. Please inform us of what really is happening.
i would agree with this. they only appeal should be on the basis that the original decision was flawed.
I am tempted to ask how do you know this. Delboy says above that over 90% of asylum claims are rejected. Is this correct ?
I have no evidence regarding the majority of cases, but in the case of those several people I know who have successfully claimed asylum in Ireland none should in my opinion have qualified as being in need of asylum.
They are all well educated people who thought that they could make a better life for themselves in Ireland. They successfully spun a story that their ethnic group was oppressed in their home country. They visit their home country on a regular basis.
In order for a person to travel to Ireland they need to have the material and social (money and paperwork) resources to get on a plane. There are no boat people arriving directly to Ireland.
I feel I should add that the person I know best, after working long hours for low pay on a zero hours type contract, decided that he could organise the business himself and has run his own company for the last two and a half years. He is tax compliant (it would be almost impossible not to be in his industry) and currently employs 3 people full time and 10 to 15 more on the same zero hours type basis. Overall Ireland is luck to have him, but he was never remotely entitled to asylum.
The 90% stat is a Dept of Justice figure from a few years back. It was consistently around that level for the past few years but according to Joe the Socialist last week, it's magically fallen to around 70% now.
On Wednesday's show he had 1 former member of the Asylum Adjudications panel who assessed claims. Of the 500 he reviewed over many years, he only granted asylum to 2. And to be honest, his logic as he explained it didn't sound like bona fide asylum claims to me. He said the vast majority in the asylum system here were chancing their arm and Joe went ballistic with him for accusing anyone who wanted to 'better themselves' by coming to this country of being a 'chancer'. 1 lad from Chile who overstayed his student vias then claimed asylum on the basis he was afraid to return home because of the threat of Earthquakes!
Joe asked him had he ever visited an asylum centre and seen the conditions there, as that could have helped him in making his decisions. No matter how many times he tried to explain to Joe that something like that has no impact on an asylum claim, Joe was refusing to get it!
Mind boggling radio last week. The whole shambles of asylum has cost us well over €1bn in the past 10-15 years.
But I'm sure there's plenty of Barristers living in nice pads in Ranelagh off the back of it
On Wednesday's show he had 1 former member of the Asylum Adjudications panel who assessed claims. Of the 500 he reviewed over many years, he only granted asylum to 2. And to be honest, his logic as he explained it didn't sound like bona fide asylum claims to me. He said the vast majority in the asylum system here were chancing their arm and Joe went ballistic with him for accusing anyone who wanted to 'better themselves' by coming to this country of being a 'chancer'
. 1 lad from Chile who overstayed his student vias then claimed asylum on the basis he was afraid to return home because of the threat of Earthquakes!Joe asked him had he ever visited an asylum centre and seen the conditions there, as that could have helped him in making his decisions. No matter how many times he tried to explain to Joe that something like that has no impact on an asylum claim, Joe was refusing to get it!
Mind boggling radio last week. The whole shambles of asylum has cost us well over €1bn in the past 10-15 years.
But I'm sure there's plenty of Barristers living in nice pads in Ranelagh off the back of it
Yes, anybody with an iota of sense knows that practically all asylum-seekers are frauds.
The 90% figure was stated by the Minister for Justice.
They are not fleeing persecution, they are simply illegal economic migrants.
How anybody believes otherwise is difficult to understand.
Bear in mind that under the Dublin Convention, AS must claim asylum in the first safe country.
There are no direct flights to Africa [except FR to Morocco, seasonal??], yet thousands of bogus, illegal Africans arrived here, via safe countries, and claimed asylum.
Now, the current issue of the Syrian war is different, this is a genuine case, we should welcome the 4,000 that we plan to accept.
We are a soft touch, and have spent hundreds of millions on DP, all waste, waste.
I would process cases within 1 week, do not let anybody leave the airport, and deport them after the week.
The 90% figure was stated by the Minister for Justice.
They are not fleeing persecution, they are simply illegal economic migrants.
How anybody believes otherwise is difficult to understand.
Bear in mind that under the Dublin Convention, AS must claim asylum in the first safe country.
There are no direct flights to Africa [except FR to Morocco, seasonal??], yet thousands of bogus, illegal Africans arrived here, via safe countries, and claimed asylum.
Now, the current issue of the Syrian war is different, this is a genuine case, we should welcome the 4,000 that we plan to accept.
We are a soft touch, and have spent hundreds of millions on DP, all waste, waste.
I would process cases within 1 week, do not let anybody leave the airport, and deport them after the week.
By the way, the fraud continues.
Bogus AS continue to apply.
See the recent stats:
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/docume...P-EN.pdf/22f5de3b-b5a8-4195-82fe-3072a4a08146
2nd quarter 2016.
From Pakistan = 70 - these are coming through NI, after UK visa expired
Zimbabwe = 55 - isn't it amazing that Ireland is the first safe country on a journey from Zimbabwe!!!!
Albania = 40
Bogus AS continue to apply.
See the recent stats:
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/docume...P-EN.pdf/22f5de3b-b5a8-4195-82fe-3072a4a08146
2nd quarter 2016.
From Pakistan = 70 - these are coming through NI, after UK visa expired
Zimbabwe = 55 - isn't it amazing that Ireland is the first safe country on a journey from Zimbabwe!!!!
Albania = 40
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As a nation we should quickly deport these illegal immigrants who continue to abuse our hospitality and costs us millions.
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Protocol, I agree that the large majority of those who claim asylum in Ireland do not have reasonable claims. Ireland is not the first safe country that anyone fleeing persecution comes to. (maybe Mexicans, or women fleeing from the US next year!).
However why should people born somewhere else in the world not be entitled to seek a better life for themselves here.
However why should people born somewhere else in the world not be entitled to seek a better life for themselves here.
I was suggesting that the system should allow anyone who wishes to emigrate to avail of better opportunities to do so. There would be no need for deceit or gaming the system.
Yes all 5 billion or so.
Or do you think that just because you ere born here that you are more entitled to live in comfort than someone who was unfortunate to be born in a less advantaged place. We are all human.
Yes all 5 billion or so.
Or do you think that just because you ere born here that you are more entitled to live in comfort than someone who was unfortunate to be born in a less advantaged place. We are all human.
Yes I am. And I have never even seen an argument in principle against it. Lots of practical arguments sure, but never an argument with a moral justification.
I don't suggest that the social welfare system should be available to economic migrants. People are entitled to opportunity, not hand outs.