Knowledge Economy

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Birroc

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I have just learned of a no-go decision by a mobile applications company that was looking to set up in Ireland. At least 40 software jobs were expected. The reason they gave what that we didn't have enough IT resources. Existing IT companies are crying out for good resources (e.g. HP, Avaya). Foreign ICT companies are becoming aware that we have a poor Maths standard and that we are producing low numbers of IT graduates.

So where is the planning/action for this Knowledge Economy? Yesterday all the Education talk among politicians is whether to keep Irish compulsory or not. Its a no-brainer in my mind! People need to wake up to the amount of time and money wasted on Irish. Make computer science compulsory would be more like it. I am sure our kids will thank us for the Irish language when they are forced to emigrate.
 
No point in banging on about Irish (you could argue History holds back maths also), if we reduced the leaving cert to a max of 5 or 6 subjects, without the need for anything other than Maths and English to be compulsory we might make progress.

All 3rd level institutions should reintroduce bonus points for honours maths, and the curriculums need to be updated.

With fewer subjects there could be more maths classes and greater streaming i.e. Higher level reverts back to a similar level of difficulty as the 80s/90s, Advanced could be similar to the current higher level curriculum and Ordinary could stay the same
 
A lot of kids will hate computer sciences as much as Irish if you make it compulsory. The only subjects that should be compulsory are Maths and English. When construction was booming and we had to import workers, why didn't we make bricklaying compulsory?
 
DerKaiser said:
No point in banging on about Irish (you could argue History holds back maths also), if we reduced the leaving cert to a max of 5 or 6 subjects, without the need for anything other than Maths and English to be compulsory we might make progress.
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I fully agree with that. People leaving second level should have a strong basic grasp of a few things that interest them rather than a weak but vast knowledge of stuff that doesn't.
 
Irish isnt the problem. The education system is. What use do we have for History and Geography in most cases??
Personally I think Olivia O Learys idea of having a year where kids learn Philosophy would suit us better. Create thinkers instead of worker drones!!
 
My company will expand by between 30 and 50% this year. Our biggest problem is finding skilled manual workers. It's the same problem we've had for the last 10 years.
 
Purple said:
My company will expand by between 30 and 50% this year. Our biggest problem is finding skilled manual workers. It's the same problem we've had for the last 10 years.
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Whats a skilled manual worker Purple? Someone with a trade?
 
redbhoy said:
Whats a skilled manual worker Purple? Someone with a trade?
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Experienced precision machinists with good computer and CAD skills.
I don't care if they have a trade as a FAS qualification isn't worth the paper it's written on.
 
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While I agree that Irish should not be a compulsory subject, I would hate to see our national language die out completely. Maybe it could be an optional class like French, I do need to note that I have very poor Irish speaking skills and almost no written skill, but I have family in Galway whose fist language is Irish and speak English very rarely. The only good that can be taken from removing Irish is more time for other more important subjects (maths mainly IMO) butfor what little Irish I have I'd still like for my children to be able to learn it even if it was just by choice.

Just my opinion. Bear
 
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Last edited by MrEBear; Today at 02:23 PM. Reason: My English is broken!!!

Is fearr Gaeilge briste ná bearla cliste :)
 
redbhoy said:
Irish isnt the problem. The education system is. What use do we have for History and Geography in most cases??
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History and Geography are not compulsory to Leaving Cert!
If people want to study Irish until LC, so be it but don't force it on everyone.
 
Birroc said:
History and Geography are not compulsory to Leaving Cert!
If people want to study Irish until LC, so be it but don't force it on everyone.
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Well then make all subjects non-compulsory after the Junior Cert.
 
What if Irish was only taught from 1st year like French and German, as a compulsory subject for the Junior Cert? I think if it followed the same curriculum style as French and German, most people would have a better level of Irish in this way.
 
Follow Maria Montessori's way and get them while they're young. The younger they learn languages the better.
 
Back on topic, I think computers science should at least be an optional subject in school. There is a lot than can be covered without requiring the latest and greatest technology to be actually present in the schools themselves. Theory such as database design fundamentals, server / disk laouts, security principles. A lot of technologies are moving into the Cloud and virtual servers so this could offer potential to the Dept of Education for hosting classes / environments for students to work on. No reason why a PC from a classroom couldn't connect to a remote server to facilitate a programming project etc.
 
redbhoy said:
Follow Maria Montessori's way and get them while they're young. The younger they learn languages the better.
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It's not just starting young - the method has to be appropriate too. I did 14 years of Irish and 6 years of French and German - you could drop me into deepest France or Germany and I'd be grand - well able to converse and survive with the language even 20+ years after leaving school. If there was a completely non-english-speaking gaeltacht, I would struggle badly to understand and be understood which is quite an indictment on the teaching as I was good at languages.
 
Birroc said:
So where is the planning/action for this Knowledge Economy? Yesterday all the Education talk among politicians is whether to keep Irish compulsory or not. Its a no-brainer in my mind! People need to wake up to the amount of time and money wasted on Irish. Make computer science compulsory would be more like it. I am sure our kids will thank us for the Irish language when they are forced to emigrate.
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There is more to education than the creation of compliant drowns for multinationals. A balance can and needs to be struck between the overall good of society in terms of culture, identity, community etc and the needs to create workers for the "the knowledge economy", whatever that phrase is actually supposed to mean?

The term is bandied about as if we are all supposed to aggree with it not to questions assumptions implicit in it. Such as what actually is "knowledge".

Sometimes I think we get so stuck on the phrase and actually loose site of what we are trying to achieve. Its kind of like "innovation". Everything has to "innovative" from sanitry towels to buckets. I swear Ive actaully heard the word innovative used in conection with ads for those those two products recentlly
 
Purple said:
Experienced precision machinists with good computer and CAD skills.
I don't care if they have a trade as a FAS qualification isn't worth the paper it's written on.
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You should be careful making slating comments in an area that may have no expertise.

As I'm involved in Apprenticeship training i'm curious to know do you have any expertise in this area because I have and I can vouch for the Trade/Craft training programmes that are run under FAS and Institutes of Technology.

Our Trade/Craft apprentices whose qualifications as you say are not worth the paper that they are written on are an extremely talented group of peolple who luckily have no problems getting work abroad during this economic collapse. This is due to the training programme that enables young skilled craftspersons travel the world and adapt to differing work practices. Our apprenticeship system is recognised as one of the best in the world, just look at the medals achieved in previous skill olympics.
 
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