Health Insurance Just found out my elderly mother(87) is paying over 500 euro per month to vhi?

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655321

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That's half her entire pension yearly.

I understand she's elderly but she's been in hospital briefly (1-2 days) a couple of times in the last 5 years and hasn't had any surgery or anything major happen like a heart attack or even a broken bone. Nothing like hip replacement or anything like that or extended hospital stays. She hasn't been in hospital at all for over two years. I feel like she's been oversold everything by vhi high-pressure sales taking advantage of an elderly customer. She has a medical card.

From searching a few threads on here this seems over 4000 p/a too expensive. Is this normal?

Thanks in advance
 
That's a very expensive 'gold plated' policy. What is the name of the plan?

There are plans in the 1500-2000 price range which should provide good access to private and high tech hospitals, though perhaps with some excesses or co-pays.

There's now a bewildering set of plans. Given how much you are paying out, it might be worth paying a modest professional broker fee to find a suitable plan as the potential savings are significant.

Fee-Based Consultation with Dermot Goode & Total Health Cover

If you want expert and impartial advice across all 390 health insurance plans, then you should avail of a fee-based consultation with Dermot Goode. This ensures you get best advice at all times based
www.totalhealthcover.ie
 
Thanks.

I'm not sure of the name yet. I only saw it today as I was preparing a move from the ulster bank and checking out the SO/DDs. This is a woman whose sole means of income is a pension.
 
There might be a reluctance to move from VHI. I have included 2 VHI plans and a Laya one in comparison.

VHI Healthplus Extra €2740pa
VHI Healthplus Access €2122pa
Laya Simplicity €1535pa

If you switch to a cheaper plan, perhaps you should put some of the savings aside into a reserve to cover excesses \ co-payments \ shortfalls.

Health Insurance Comparison Tool | HIA

Compare health insurance plans across a wide variety of providers in Ireland. You can also compare your current health insurance plan with other plans available.
www.hia.ie www.hia.ie
 
odyssey06 said:
There might be a reluctance to move from VHI. I have included 2 VHI plans and a Laya one in comparison.

VHI Healthplus Extra €2740pa
VHI Healthplus Access €2122pa
Laya Simplicity €1535pa

If you switch to a cheaper plan, perhaps you should put some of the savings aside into a reserve to cover excesses \ co-payments \ shortfalls.

Health Insurance Comparison Tool | HIA

Compare health insurance plans across a wide variety of providers in Ireland. You can also compare your current health insurance plan with other plans available.
www.hia.ie www.hia.ie
Click to expand...
I thought that the younger health insurance policy holders were paying additional costs so that people of that ladys age would avail of cheaper premiums, but the example shows that even after this additional money paid to VHI the policies are still more expensive.

Community rating I think its called.
 
Not the first time that we've seen this type of post on AAM. IMHO this situation came about some years ago when VHI dropped the expensive Plan B policies and switched what appears to have been a lot of elderly people to much more expensive policies. A lot of these policies are allowed to roll over at renewal for fear of lowering their cover with might affect them dearly if they need to claim.

You could check out the www.hia.ie website yourself or pay a fee to possibly a company such as www.totalhealthcover.ie and get professional advice about changing to a different policy.

Even if your mother holds a medical card with the waiting lists as they are you should keep a good but realistically priced policy for her.
 
odyssey06 said:
There might be a reluctance to move from VHI. I have included 2 VHI plans and a Laya one in comparison.

VHI Healthplus Extra €2740pa
VHI Healthplus Access €2122pa
Laya Simplicity €1535pa

If you switch to a cheaper plan, perhaps you should put some of the savings aside into a reserve to cover excesses \ co-payments \ shortfalls.

Health Insurance Comparison Tool | HIA

Compare health insurance plans across a wide variety of providers in Ireland. You can also compare your current health insurance plan with other plans available.
www.hia.ie www.hia.ie
Click to expand...
Very helpful thanks. I feel like she's on the most expensive plan and they've also sold every extra possible. I'll find out her plan tomorrow. Appreciate the help.

Sue Ellen said:
Not the first time that we've seen this type of post on AAM. IMHO this situation came about some years ago when VHI dropped the expensive Plan B policies and switched what appears to have been a lot of elderly people to much more expensive policies. A lot of these policies are allowed to roll over at renewal for fear of lowering their cover with might affect them dearly if they need to claim.

You could check out the www.hia.ie website yourself or pay a fee to possibly a company such as www.totalhealthcover.ie and get professional advice about changing to a different policy.

Even if your mother holds a medical card with the waiting lists as they are you should keep a good but realistically priced policy for her.
Click to expand...
Yes I think that's probably what happened.

I think I'll probably print out this thread and maybe get professional advice. I will keep it updated as this site seems to come up high in google results and it may help others.

Thanks again all.
 
Paul O Mahoney said:
I thought that the younger health insurance policy holders were paying additional costs so that people of that ladys age would avail of cheaper premiums, but the example shows that even after this additional money paid to VHI the policies are still more expensive.

Community rating I think its called.
Click to expand...
There are age loadings applied to people who take out health insurance after the age of 35.

So the same plan costs the same to a 35 year old as an 80 year old.

However, the insurers responded by:
(1) Introducing a bewildering amount of plans
(2) Increasing the price of plans which were likely to be favoured by older people, including legacy \ long established plans

Each insurer will have some competitvely priced plans, usually newer plans, which they use to win corporate\group business.
Anyone can avail of these plans - if they can figure out their name!

I'll leave further discussion on that to another thread as don't want to side track this one,.
 
Always got good advice on this forum regarding health insurance.

Worthwhile reviewing a plan every year to see has it changed. Often a slight adjustment can give most of the benefits with a decent saving. Insurance plans change all the time.

Also check with an old person if all the treatments are still viable. They may be paying for cover they can no longer get. But perhaps if they are very healthy they can. But its their money at the end of the day. They are entitle to spend it as they like if they understand what they are doing.
 
Paul O Mahoney said:
I thought that the younger health insurance policy holders were paying additional costs so that people of that ladys age would avail of cheaper premiums, but the example shows that even after this additional money paid to VHI the policies are still more expensive.

Community rating I think its called.
Click to expand...
Community rating is supposed to ensure that younger people subsidise older people, but it didn't involve payments to VHI

When the health insurance market was opened to competition here years ago, it was to be supported by 2 things:
Community rating: everybody pays the same for a health insurance plan, irrespective of age
Risk Equalisation: compensation payments made from insurers with younger customers to insurers with older customers.

When the new insurers opened up, the people who switched from VHI were largely younger customers. Older customers, by and large, did not switch. In the heath insurance business in Ireland, young customers are very profitable, and older customers are the opposite.
The new insurers challenged risk equalisation in the courts and won. No payments were ever made.

VHI now had an older book of customers and needed to raise prices to cover for this, but if they raised prices, more younger customers would leave.
They decided to split the book. They created plans that would be less attractive to older customers, by reducing benefits on procedures that are generally age related: hip replacements and cataracts. Then raised prices on plans that had full cover for these procedures.

So, while community rating is still in effect, all plans are open to all age groups at the same price, older people generally go for the more expensive plans that cover hip replacements and cataracts, and younger people go for the cheaper plans with restricted cover.

The other insurers followed suit.

This means that community rating is pretty much dead. Older people, in general, pay much more for health insurance. The whole introduction of competition into health insurance has been a mess.

It sounds like the OP's mother is currently on one of the most expensive plans (equivalent of Plan D or E back in the day), she should be able to switch to a cheaper plan that will provide adequate cover.
There is also nothing to stop her getting a much cheaper "young person's" plan and using the savings to cover the shortfall on a hip or cataract operation, should she need it.
 
John Locke said:
The new insurers challenged risk equalisation in the courts and won. No payments were ever made.
Click to expand...
Never knew that , very informative post, thanks.
Also questions the logic of taking out health insurance if you are under 35 if community rating is all but dead as you very well explained in your post.

Surely better off to save the money and then take out the more expensive policy when you get to 55 and beyond
 
John Locke said:
Community rating is supposed to ensure that younger people subsidise older people, but it didn't involve payments to VHI

When the health insurance market was opened to competition here years ago, it was to be supported by 2 things:
Community rating: everybody pays the same for a health insurance plan, irrespective of age
Risk Equalisation: compensation payments made from insurers with younger customers to insurers with older customers.

When the new insurers opened up, the people who switched from VHI were largely younger customers. Older customers, by and large, did not switch. In the heath insurance business in Ireland, young customers are very profitable, and older customers are the opposite.
The new insurers challenged risk equalisation in the courts and won. No payments were ever made.

VHI now had an older book of customers and needed to raise prices to cover for this, but if they raised prices, more younger customers would leave.
They decided to split the book. They created plans that would be less attractive to older customers, by reducing benefits on procedures that are generally age related: hip replacements and cataracts. Then raised prices on plans that had full cover for these procedures.

So, while community rating is still in effect, all plans are open to all age groups at the same price, older people generally go for the more expensive plans that cover hip replacements and cataracts, and younger people go for the cheaper plans with restricted cover.

The other insurers followed suit.

This means that community rating is pretty much dead. Older people, in general, pay much more for health insurance. The whole introduction of competition into health insurance has been a mess.

It sounds like the OP's mother is currently on one of the most expensive plans (equivalent of Plan D or E back in the day), she should be able to switch to a cheaper plan that will provide adequate cover.
There is also nothing to stop her getting a much cheaper "young person's" plan and using the savings to cover the shortfall on a hip or cataract operation, should she need it.
Click to expand...
Thanks but why at the end of our Laya annual statement it mentions that an amount is included in our premium for risk equalization.........I'm working from memory here.
 
Paul O Mahoney said:
Thanks but why at the end of our Laya annual statement it mentions that an amount is included in our premium for risk equalization.........I'm working from memory here.
Click to expand...
It's because a form of risk equalisation has been in place since Jan 2013. If anyone wants some in depth info on how this works you can check out a pdf from the HIA on it. I think links might be restricted on this site but I'll try post it at the bottom of my post, otherwise if you google "risk equalisation payments" it should come up high on the list.

To try quickly summerise, as mentioned above the original risk equalisation scheme was challenged in the courts and postponed. It was overhauled and the new system is in place since Jan 2013. It works in that we all pay a government levy as part of our premiums which goes to Revenue who place it in the fund. They then distribute "credits" worth x amount of € to insurers based on eligible claims. For example a male 65-69 years old on a advance plan would get the insurer a credit worth €1000. Credits are also given for day cases and per night at hospitals.

Link:
 
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Starrynights said:
It's because a form of risk equalisation has been in place since Jan 2013. If anyone wants some in depth info on how this works you can check out a pdf from the HIA on it. I think links might be restricted on this site but I'll try post it at the bottom of my post, otherwise if you google "risk equalisation payments" it should come up high on the list.

To try quickly summerise, as mentioned above the original risk equalisation scheme was challenged in the courts and postponed. It was overhauled and the new system is in place since Jan 2013. It works in that we all pay a government levy as part of our premiums which goes to Revenue who place it in the fund. They then distribute "credits" worth x amount of € to insurers based on eligible claims. For example a male 65-69 years old on a advance plan would get the insurer a credit worth €1000. Credits are also given for day cases and per night at hospitals.

Link:
Click to expand...
Thanks foe this, sorry, I should have Googled before I posted! That's good to know. I used to work in the area, but left in 2012, my info is out of date!
 
Just adding to this as I found out today my 87 year old mum is paying 3600 per annum to vhi for health insurance and dental insurance.
She has a gp visit card also.
Am going to look into this as insurance seems awfully high.
 
Bolter said:
Just adding to this as I found out today my 87 year old mum is paying 3600 per annum to vhi for health insurance and dental insurance.
She has a gp visit card also.
Am going to look into this as insurance seems awfully high.
Click to expand...
It is too high, cost wise
 
Seems like she has HealthPlus Premium (which is no longer available) PLUS she's paying for HealthPlus Access for a sibling (57) of mine.

This is going to be awkward. The mystery is kind of solved though.

Is HealthPlus Premium now HealthPlus Extra?
 
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655321 said:
Seems like she has HealthPlus Premium (which is no longer available) PLUS she's paying for HealthPlus Access for a sibling (57) of mine.

This is going to be awkward. The mystery is kind of solved though.

Is HealthPlus Premium now HealthPlus Extra?
Click to expand...

HealthPlus Premium has closed

Vhi Healthcare Price and Benefit Changes, New Plans and Plan Closures 01.05.2022

Vhi Healthcare have announced a price change across 40 plans as of the 1st of May 2022Please see attached for further i
www.hia.ie www.hia.ie

There's some discussion here about HealthPlus Access - seems like it would be worth keeping for your parent (it offers full cover for certain orthopaedic and ophthalmic procedures) but perhaps not your sibling.

Health Insurance - VHI Renewal for my folks. Changing from HealthPlus Acccess to a Corporate Plan.

I can't believe how confusing VHI have managed to make choosing a plan. No wonder older people have been rolling over their plans for years and just accepting the increase in their premium! Their renewal is nearly 4.5K which seems way too much. I've been looking at the following Corp Plans ( PMI...
www.askaboutmoney.com
 
odyssey06 said:
HealthPlus Premium has closed

Vhi Healthcare Price and Benefit Changes, New Plans and Plan Closures 01.05.2022

Vhi Healthcare have announced a price change across 40 plans as of the 1st of May 2022Please see attached for further i
www.hia.ie www.hia.ie

There's some discussion here about HealthPlus Access - seems like it would be worth keeping for your parent (it offers full cover for certain orthopaedic and ophthalmic procedures) but perhaps not your sibling.

Health Insurance - VHI Renewal for my folks. Changing from HealthPlus Acccess to a Corporate Plan.

I can't believe how confusing VHI have managed to make choosing a plan. No wonder older people have been rolling over their plans for years and just accepting the increase in their premium! Their renewal is nearly 4.5K which seems way too much. I've been looking at the following Corp Plans ( PMI...
www.askaboutmoney.com
Click to expand...

Thank you. (Thanks everyone, in fact. I now know way too much about healthcare.) The latest documents I could find were from 2020. I'll try find some more recent then explore the options.

Leaving this here for my own reference

Health Insurance Comparison Tool | HIA

Compare health insurance plans across a wide variety of providers in Ireland. You can also compare your current health insurance plan with other plans available.
www.hia.ie www.hia.ie
 
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