John Waters on the Quinns

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DerKaiser

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A truly sickening article and an insult to everyone footing the bill for Quinn's farcical efforts at running an insurance company in the UK which will cost us all €1bn in increased insurance premiums and for those who will bear the brunt of the Quinns dealings in the Ukraine that swindled the state out of €500m.
 
strange that 'anglo' a bank thats largely responsible for destorying the irish economy, is now suddenly the 'good guy'!.........what a funny race of people we are.
 
blueband said:
strange that 'anglo' a bank thats largely responsible for destorying the irish economy, is now suddenly the 'good guy'!.........what a funny race of people we are.
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Who thinks or is saying that Anglo are good guys? Anglo are gone. We have to try and minimise the cost of that to the taxpayer and that means not allowing a family like the Quinns hide over half a billion worth of assets that belong to IBRC and in turn the taxpayer. Courts in Ireland and across the world have found against the Quinns. Yet they seem to think they are above little things like court orders.

If it makes you feel better if Quinn gets one over on the evil IBRC to the tune of about €500m then good luck to you.
 
im not in any way sticking up for quinn, he brought about his own downfall through sheer greed. but anglo were far from blameless in all this. and just changing the name dosent wash away its sins!
 
The entire issue would be moot were it not for the lunatic decision of the Cowen regime to socialise the already spectacularly bankrupt Anglo in September 2008. This action, and the motives behind it, have yet to be properly investigated and none of those responsible has yet to see the inside of a police barracks let alone Mountjoy.

But let's forget all that and blame and demonise Quinn instead...
 
T McGibney said:
The entire issue would be moot were it not for the lunatic decision of the Cowen regime to socialise the already spectacularly bankrupt Anglo in September 2008. This action, and the motives behind it, have yet to be properly investigated and none of those responsible has yet to see the inside of a police barracks let alone Mountjoy.

But let's forget all that and blame and demonise Quinn instead...
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Again who is forgetting anything? It wasn't Anglo or Cowan that made Quinn use his insurance company as a cash cow for the rest of his group and therefore made it insolvent and left ordinary people to pick up the tab. That was all Quinn.

This is not trying to demonise anyone. Quinn is simply one of many people who still play the victim for what happened. It's his actions since entering bankruptcy that I have a real problem with. And so does the High Court. That has nothing to do with the guarantee and so would not be a moot point. I would feel the same if he owed the money to any other bank and not one owed by the taxpayer.
 
Its more than Waters defending Quinn, we now have clergy, TV presenter, sport manager and 3,000 out in support of him. What a funny little nation we are.
 
Maybe the point they are making is that at least Quinn did some good things before his difficulties, what did David Drumm or Seanie or Fingleton or Boucher Hayes or Sheehy (stick down a few more if ye can think of them) do for the country (endlessly rolling up loans for paper profits doesnt count)????, and yet who has the legal system and 'de meeejah' singled out for special treatment ..................

I know its simplistic and self-serving to say that its all a D4 conspiracy 'agin' Quinn, but you see how it has an easy appeal to people who, with some justification, would make the argument above. Maybe when Seanie has his day in court people will feel the scales are being balanced - it's one way traffic at the moment and I'd say locals feel that someone is being unfairly villified when those with far less to recommend them seem to have immunity.
 
Betsy Og said:
Maybe the point they are making is that at least Quinn did some good things before his difficulties, what did David Drumm or Seanie or Fingleton or Boucher Hayes or Sheehy (stick down a few more if ye can think of them) do for the country (endlessly rolling up loans for paper profits doesnt count)????, and yet who has the legal system and 'de meeejah' singled out for special treatment ..................

I.
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Sean Fitzpatrick built up Anglo from a small bank to break the monopoly that AIB and BOI had on Irish banking. Anglo provided thousands of direct jobs and thousands of indirect jobs. He didn't force the Government to issue the Guarantee. Are we saying we should feel sorry for him?

The Quinns have admitted that they broke the law by putting assets beyond the reach of their creditors. They have been found in comtempt of court orders. One of them is on tape saying that he would have no problem lying to a High Court Judge. If the Quinns feel like they are being singled out, maybe they should ask themselves why...

And that's ignoring what they did with the Insurance company.

Quinn is not the only case at the moment either. Look at the case involving Brian O'Donnell. Maybe the IRFU and the media should organise a protest rally in support for their fallen D4 comrade.
 
Sunny said:
Sean Fitzpatrick built up Anglo from a small bank to break the monopoly that AIB and BOI had on Irish banking. Anglo provided thousands of direct jobs and thousands of indirect jobs. He didn't force the Government to issue the Guarantee.]
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What was the phrase? "The greatest single banking loss in the world.....ever" or something like that. If you think the Quinn's lied, I'd say you could put the house on it (unfortunate analogy I know) that the bankers lied on the night the guarantee was given, even Lenihan and Cowen wouldnt have signed up for this morass.

Anglo were the biggest single cause of banking madness in the country, they had the blueprint and the rest ended up competing with Anglo, on Anglo's terms. They were poison for Irish banking.
 
blueband said:
last i heard it was closer to 5,000 people.
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Hmmm, 5,000 people = shocking.

Parish pump business on a large scale.

I recently spoke to an employee who wouldn't hear a word said against their ex employers, it says a lot.
 
Betsy Og said:
What was the phrase? "The greatest single banking loss in the world.....ever" or something like that. If you think the Quinn's lied, I'd say you could put the house on it (unfortunate analogy I know) that the bankers lied on the night the guarantee was given, even Lenihan and Cowen wouldnt have signed up for this morass.

Anglo were the biggest single cause of banking madness in the country, they had the blueprint and the rest ended up competing with Anglo, on Anglo's terms. They were poison for Irish banking.
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Did you leave out the key phrase "Are we saying we should feel sorry for him?" in quoting Sunny because
(1) you didn't understand that it was the central point of his argument, or
(2) you understood his point and wanted to misdirect the thread?

It would be best to keep this thread to the rights or wrongs of Sean Quinn's actions.

John Waters believes his biggest failing was being too ambitious. I happen to agree with the fact that he shouldn't be gloated at for being ambitious and failing. But I don't agree that this was his biggest failing.

His biggest failing in my eyes has been his own reaction to his downfall. He has taken illegal measures to put his assets beyond the reach of his creditors.

His second biggest failing is his failure to recognise that in doing this he is not hurting the people he might rightfully believe caused his downfall (the main culprits are all well removed at this stage), instead he is directly hurting the individuals of the state.
 
Betsy Og said:
What was the phrase? "The greatest single banking loss in the world.....ever" or something like that. If you think the Quinn's lied, I'd say you could put the house on it (unfortunate analogy I know) that the bankers lied on the night the guarantee was given, even Lenihan and Cowen wouldnt have signed up for this morass.

Anglo were the biggest single cause of banking madness in the country, they had the blueprint and the rest ended up competing with Anglo, on Anglo's terms. They were poison for Irish banking.
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I don't disagree but why is Quinn different considering we are left with a €1 billion bill because of what he did with his insurance company. Why does he get to be treated differently?
 
Complete failure of regulation here.

How many were working in the Dept Of Finance/Central Bank/ Regulator?
 
DerKaiser & Sunny, I think its just a difference of scale on the +'s and -'s of each of them.

I dont think Seanie's contribution on the + side is anything like Sean Quinn's. On the - side, if 1bn was the extent of Anglo we'd all be delighted, and that's ignoring the rest they dragged with them.

I'm not saying Sean Quinn is an angel, he done wrong, I suppose it's just unfortunate that he's the first one to get rigours of justice, and the optics of it lead people, who dont need much prompting, to conclude that it the D4 meejah taking it out on one heretofore hero. Now if they dont end up nailing Seanie and the rest, and I wouldnt like to be betting they will, then the martyrdom of Sean Quinn will be complete.
 
i think its seen by many as the might of the state taking on sean quinn, and giving that many people have a deep mistrust of the state, its only natural to assume there will be plenty to take his side.
 
Sean Fitzpatrick was made bankrupt and has been charged. Sean Quinn was made bankrupt. He wasn't charged with anything. The reason he is in so much legal difficulty has nothing to with what he did while in business or how many billion he lost. He is trouble because he has basically stuck two fingers up to the law of this land. Anyone who has done what he did deserves exactly the same.

If an ordinary person came on AAM saying how he was looking to hide assets from his creditors and lie to the High Court, they would be slaughtered. Yet the Quinns are somehow different. And then we wonder why the rich seem to think they can get away with anything.
 
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