It's time to join the Schengen Agreement

B

brainlessareus

Guest
I just traveled to Stockholm via Copenhagen and than back via Oslo and I think it is time we join the Schengen agreement.

In Copenhagen the only free place was in the Schengen zone, so they parked the plane than and send us via bus to the non-schengen terminal where 1 (one) border guard was on duty and I had 10 minutes before he scanned my passport.

In Oslo the non-schengen gates at the end of the terminal a good 10 minutes walk from the lounge. And again 10 minutes queue until the guard scanned my passport and that for going home!

I can travel from Lisbon to Stockholm without a single control but to go to Ireland I get the 3rd degree and my data is scanned against Europols list. What am I a citizen of 2nd class.

I understand that Ireland has a special agreement about travel freedom with the UK and that that is a main reason for not joining Schengen. But these days one needs ID to go the UK anyhow because the Airline won't take you without.

So what is the holdup there?

If the UK does not want to join, so what, Ireland is an independent state and if they want to do boarder control between Ireland and the UK than let them.

I am a EU citizen (well if there is not such a thing but you know what I mean), so what am I treated as a 2nd class citizen just because of some historic ties between the UK and Ireland.

Just my 2 cent.
 
But these days one needs ID to go the UK anyhow ...Ireland is an independent state and if they want to do boarder control between Ireland and the UK than let them.
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Perhaps you forget that our State shares a border with Northern Ireland!

We have not yet joined the Schengen arrangement as this would have drastic implications for us, both in terms of having to re-establish satisfactory immigration controls, and for the large numbers of people who cross the border regularly for work or social purposes.

Imagine the chaos on the Ballyconnell/Derrylin road every morning as hundreds travel across the border (in either direction) to work in Sean Quinn's enterprises. Imagine the chaos around Clones on matchdays when up to 35,000 people have to cross the border to access the place - even those travelling from places as far south as Cavan! Imagine the propaganda boost that such hassle would give to the SFIRA, who would surely oppose it...
 
For what it's worth has some useful information on the Schengen zone and the Ireland/UK Common Travel Area including this (underlining is mine):
Ireland's participation in the Schengen Agreement

In accordance with the protocol to the Treaty of Amsterdam, Ireland can take part in all or part of the Schengen arrangements if the thirteen Schengen Group Member States and a representative of the Irish government vote unanimously in favour within the Council of the European Union.

Ireland is party to the Schengen Agreement, but not for visa purposes. This means that Irish nationals will be required to bring their passports with them when travelling within the Schengen area.
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Tommy wrote:
Perhaps you forget that our State shares a border with Northern Ireland!
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I have not forgotten that this Ireland is unfortunately divided and that joining Schengen would create a problem, but if your read the oasis documents you know that in theory we would need formal controls anyhow, because a non Irish or non British would still need to be controlled. This is as the Common Travel Area means that there are no passport controls in operation for Irish and UK citizens traveling between the two countries. No remark about foreigners.

And please on my frequent ways from Birmingham or London to Dublin I normally get controlled by Gardi on the way in even that I said that I was a citizen, I had to prove it as outlined in the oasis document. (Thank you LUAS for giving out passes). That may be because I fly AirLingus and we end up in the low cost carrier terminal where you walk to the building but still.

So we are an Island, ensure border control for foreigners on port of entry and join Schengen. And Irish or British citizen just needs to show the document as outlined by oasis and he is in. (And as said we already do that when we travel).

But that would be too much co-operation for some.
 
I might be wrong, but I think the Schengen Agreement allows residents of Schengen Agreement countries to travel through out the Schengen Agreement zone, without passports, providing the can show a National Identity Card.

The Republic of Ireland and the UK do not have a National Identity Card, and I hope we never will.

Rgds

SBSinnott
 
Re: Re: It's time to join the Schengen Agreement

The Republic of Ireland and the UK do not have a National Identity Card, and I hope we never will.
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Blunkett is bringing one in in the UK, and its just a matter of time before we have one in Ireland.

It'll be a good thing too.

Once both countries have it, then the (very valid) arguments in the UK for staying out of the Schengen should be reduced.
 
Re: Re: It's time to join the Schengen Agreement

Clarke hasn't deviated from the Home Office policy, and wants to strengthen the obligation that subjects will have to carry them.
 
Re: Re: It's time to join the Schengen Agreement

As I recall, once the Brits decided to opt out of the Agreement, we were left with the choice of either siding with them or siding with the rest of Europe - no ifs, buts or other opt-outs.

Given that the UK and NI still accounts for the bulk of "foreign" travel from this country, we had no alternative for practical purposes but to row in with the Brits.

In fairness to them, they're free to impose whatever border controls they feel appropriate to their own circumstances (even if everyone else thinks they're daft). Any sort of "special" arrangement with Ireland (had we thrown our lot in with mainland Europe) would have made it very difficult to control the inflow of those who would use Ireland as a virtual gateway to the UK.
 
The 2nd class citizen again

I just arrived from Madrid via London in Dublin.

Madrid - Passport controll because I leave Schengen
London - Passport controll because I enter the UK and my planes leave from a gate that UK domestic flights are leaving
Dublin - Passport controll (well he was happy when I said I want to go home, comming from London and did not look too close to my pass).

Now don't get me wrong, I have nothing to hide but 3 passport controlls just to get home? Not to mention that Madrid scanned my passport and even the metropolitan police did scan it. I am feeling so controlled...

Again Madrid to Norway (not even in the EU) not a single controll but going to good old Ireland controll after controll. What next. Irish residens/citizen will be singled out for strip search just because you never know with this 2nd class citizen....

I seriously think of voting NO about the european constitution, what good is it if the british empire can force their will on us just because we might get a lot of visitors from there. Either they are in or not. If not than good luck to them.This picking of what one wants to sign up to is outrages. If you don't want Europe than go away but if you want the benefits than you have to accept the drawbacks.
 
Re: The 2nd class citizen again

What next. Irish residens/citizen will be singled out for strip search just because you never know with this 2nd class citizen....

I very much doubt it. Why do you think that this might happen?

I seriously think of voting NO about the european constitution, what good is it if the british empire can force their will on us just because we might get a lot of visitors from there.

How exactly have they "forced their will" on us and what precisely has the proposed EU constitution got to do with this?
 
constitution

Clubman, gain some humor. The strip search was ironic!

As long as the constituion allows countries to 'opt out' of major agreements I don't think it is worth the paper it is written on.

If we are serious about the EU and the rights that it gives to it citizens we need to be in there and expect others to be in there.

Either it is a la carte as it is these days (and I don't like it) or it is full and complete with the same for everyone.

This a la carte action is (and I am not only talking about Schengen, I also talk about the french/german alliance to stop a common service market) contraproductive and not really something that has my support.

Hence as long as the constitution (basicly a re-write of existing treaties from Rome over Amsterdam to Nice) is based on an a la carte approach it is not finding my support.
 
Re: constitution

As long as the constituion allows countries to 'opt out' of major agreements I don't think it is worth the paper it is written on.

The Schengen Agreement is not originally an EU agreement and was only retrospectively made so in 1999.

Thanks for the clarification of the basis for your opinion of the EU constitution which makes more sense now than the simple Brit bashing that it appeared to be earlier.
 
Brit bashing

simple Brit bashing
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I don't do Brit bashing because I don't think there is such a thing a brit.

There are english, welsh, scotish and irish (and maybe some other regional variants).

The 3 first are part of Great Britain and the last ones are currently divided.

Just because there is such a thing as the "united kingdom of great britain and northern ireland" there might not be such thing as british.

I mean I would not call someone from Belfast british, a londener brit (he's english) nor would I call a guy from Texas american.

Forcing a United (be it state or kingdom) of something does not make a nation nor does it make the people the same.
 
Re: Brit bashing

don't think there is such a thing a brit.

I'd beg to differ.

nor would I call a guy from Texas american.

Why not? Such a person is American by virtue of the fact that they live on (one of) the American continent(s) even if they are also a citizen of the USA. It's aking to calling an Irish person European - both fit.
 
Re: Brit bashing

It is good to see that other people are using wikipedia !

I'm sorry but one of my parents (father) is from Texas and I ensure you that even that the yanks won the war we are more texan than americans. But that might be because American is in normal view always = USA, which is as you say not true because there are other states on that continent. But still I hate when someone says american to me. It's texan and not american. And no, we don't want Bush back, he is from new england!

And as much as I like wikipedia and respect your opinion, if someone says he is british fine for me, but I still think that the UK are a nation forced together by war, treachery and they are occupying areas that does not belong to them.
 
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