Brendan Burgess
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[broken link removed]
Italians fine Ryanair €3m for failing to help ash victims
- Thread starter Brendan Burgess
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SoylentGreen
Registered User
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The more fines like this the merrier. These people need to stop treating their customes like animals when things go wrong. It's not as if they are still the "Low Cost Airline" anymore, judging from their current flight prices.
"The more fines like this the merrier"
So, O.K., what you -and the EU - are saying is :-
Regardless of the reason for a flight cancellation -even if it is an unexpected, unprecedented event (for which not even government agencies had pre-planned) - an EU airline, regardless of what price it charges for the flight must provide board and lodging for as long as that flight cannot operate.
That is, for example, even if it charges 100 euros for the flight it must give,say, 500 euros for a weeks delay.
If you don't want fares to go back to the level of 1980 when it cost the equivalent of 200 euros return to London and 400 to Athens (the weekly wage was under100 euros) then you must oppose this law.
Very roughly, thats like charging today 600 euros return to London and over a grand to Athens.
You really can't have cheap fares and such punitive regulations in circumstances such as the volcanic ash.
The same applies to tour operators who are giving free board and lodging to holidaymakers stuck out there -whilst at the same time refunding immediately to those who cant get out. At the same time people ain't booking ahead.
Sounds great for consumer protection - until such time as there aren't any airlines and travel companies to provide consumers with a cheap service.
I can't understand how those who like to fly from Ireland on reasonable priced fares also demand that airlines pay high compensation for events beyond their control.
Doesn't anyone on this website realise that airlines and many companies involved in travel (not just tour operators, travel agencies, but airports, hotels, right down to tour guides) are on the brink in this situation, most especially in this worst affected country ?
Thousands will become unemployed if this continues -and not just in the travel business.
Airlines and the travel industry are not expecting government hand-outs (we're not banks or developers), but to give free accommodation,free food, free this-and-that because a volcano stops travel ?
At the same time doing extra work for nought ?
And not getting any future bookings ?
Whilst the response of some people is "fine them - the more fines the merrier".
This post will be deleted if not edited immediately wept !
So, O.K., what you -and the EU - are saying is :-
Regardless of the reason for a flight cancellation -even if it is an unexpected, unprecedented event (for which not even government agencies had pre-planned) - an EU airline, regardless of what price it charges for the flight must provide board and lodging for as long as that flight cannot operate.
That is, for example, even if it charges 100 euros for the flight it must give,say, 500 euros for a weeks delay.
If you don't want fares to go back to the level of 1980 when it cost the equivalent of 200 euros return to London and 400 to Athens (the weekly wage was under100 euros) then you must oppose this law.
Very roughly, thats like charging today 600 euros return to London and over a grand to Athens.
You really can't have cheap fares and such punitive regulations in circumstances such as the volcanic ash.
The same applies to tour operators who are giving free board and lodging to holidaymakers stuck out there -whilst at the same time refunding immediately to those who cant get out. At the same time people ain't booking ahead.
Sounds great for consumer protection - until such time as there aren't any airlines and travel companies to provide consumers with a cheap service.
I can't understand how those who like to fly from Ireland on reasonable priced fares also demand that airlines pay high compensation for events beyond their control.
Doesn't anyone on this website realise that airlines and many companies involved in travel (not just tour operators, travel agencies, but airports, hotels, right down to tour guides) are on the brink in this situation, most especially in this worst affected country ?
Thousands will become unemployed if this continues -and not just in the travel business.
Airlines and the travel industry are not expecting government hand-outs (we're not banks or developers), but to give free accommodation,free food, free this-and-that because a volcano stops travel ?
At the same time doing extra work for nought ?
And not getting any future bookings ?
Whilst the response of some people is "fine them - the more fines the merrier".
This post will be deleted if not edited immediately wept !
C
Chocks away
Guest
I, for one, hope that Ryan Air stands up to this bureaucratic stitch up. Would the people that knock O'Leary's enterprise like to return to the old days of high pricing? What is it with people who want to down the man that brought cheap/free flights to everyone? If the Irish politicians travelled this way, their travel expenses would be far lower. Among 'sophisticated' flyers there is an element of snobbery. After all you only have to look at some of the Aer Lingus adverts in the early days of Ryan Air.
Geraldine2
Registered User
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My personal opinion is that Ryanair is being unjustly attacked by some of the Italian authorities because of their intensive use of Ciampino (Rome) airport which Italian politicians would like to have for their own exclusive use.
Does anyone on askaboutmoney know what Alitalia actually provided?
Why did the Italian "Protezione Civile", organized by the "Regione Lazio" help stranded passengers at Fiumicino airport by providing hot food and camp beds and not help the stranded passengers at Ciampino (Rome) airport?
Please note that the "Regione Lazio" has been trying in every way to oust Ryanair from Ciampino for some time now.
Does anyone on askaboutmoney know what Alitalia actually provided?
Why did the Italian "Protezione Civile", organized by the "Regione Lazio" help stranded passengers at Fiumicino airport by providing hot food and camp beds and not help the stranded passengers at Ciampino (Rome) airport?
Please note that the "Regione Lazio" has been trying in every way to oust Ryanair from Ciampino for some time now.
Funny,roker, you mention Newcastle -have just booked a return flight from Dublin in June for ten euros -including tax and check in. Not taking a case though. Available on most days in June.
I'll be bookinga few other amazing deals over the Summer.
Last weekend went to East Midlands back from Luton on Tue evening . Me, wife and daughter plus a suitcase -total cost 200 euros.
There are loads of cheap deals on Ryanair (and other airlines have to follow suit)if one books ahead .
That's why, as a travel agent, i wish cheap fare airlines would disappear so I could get back to the days when I'd charge a fortune to fly anywhere.
But as old guy who'll soon retire I want to fly to lots of places as cheaply as possible. To get those low fares if I don't expect an airline to pay for my upkeep if I'm stuck somewhere because of no fault of the airline.
Geraldine2 - You are so right...
Ironic that Italy who has vied with Greece in breaking EU rules, directives and guidelines (including giving 300m state aid to Alitalia before it went bust and then taken over by some "private investors") has so quickly fined Ryanair for breaking this EU law.
Anyway,I ramble, I must now deal with some stranded clients abroad who are asking for "spending money" in addition to the free board and lodging they receive until the flight can operate.............. !!!AAAHHHHH !!
I'll be bookinga few other amazing deals over the Summer.
Last weekend went to East Midlands back from Luton on Tue evening . Me, wife and daughter plus a suitcase -total cost 200 euros.
There are loads of cheap deals on Ryanair (and other airlines have to follow suit)if one books ahead .
That's why, as a travel agent, i wish cheap fare airlines would disappear so I could get back to the days when I'd charge a fortune to fly anywhere.
But as old guy who'll soon retire I want to fly to lots of places as cheaply as possible. To get those low fares if I don't expect an airline to pay for my upkeep if I'm stuck somewhere because of no fault of the airline.
Geraldine2 - You are so right...
Ironic that Italy who has vied with Greece in breaking EU rules, directives and guidelines (including giving 300m state aid to Alitalia before it went bust and then taken over by some "private investors") has so quickly fined Ryanair for breaking this EU law.
Anyway,I ramble, I must now deal with some stranded clients abroad who are asking for "spending money" in addition to the free board and lodging they receive until the flight can operate.............. !!!AAAHHHHH !!
C
Chocks away
Guest
I don't miss anything. Annually I use Ryan Air about half a dozen times. For two returns, I have never paid more than €50. That includes places like Oslo, La Rochelle and other plces where planes fill quickly. You've got to use your noodle and pick your destinations. However, if you don't like the price there's always Aer Lingus.
SoylentGreen
Registered User
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"ENAC said Ryanair passengers stuck in Rome had to be helped by its own staff, members of Italy's Civil Protection agency and employees of the Rome airports operator".
Ryanair should provide someone to deal with queries from stranded passengers on the ground.
Ryanair should provide someone to deal with queries from stranded passengers on the ground.
I agree with several posters on this thread. The situation was no fault of Ryanair, they lost enough money as it is and should not be punished further. People love to see Ryanair fined - without realizing that in the long run, it means higher ticket prices.
I would love if the EU allowed Ryanair to apply a Ryanair solution in such situations: If you are a seasoned enough traveler that you can sort out your own transport into town and a cheap ho(s)tel for a few nights, you just do that and suck up the bill. Not the airline's fault after all. And if you happen to be someone who absolutely cannot organize the simplest thing themselves, you can approach Ryanair at the airport and have them take care of it, for a reasonable fee.
I would love if the EU allowed Ryanair to apply a Ryanair solution in such situations: If you are a seasoned enough traveler that you can sort out your own transport into town and a cheap ho(s)tel for a few nights, you just do that and suck up the bill. Not the airline's fault after all. And if you happen to be someone who absolutely cannot organize the simplest thing themselves, you can approach Ryanair at the airport and have them take care of it, for a reasonable fee.
Ryanair run a business within a certain legal framework. The same laws and rules apply to all airlines. Ryanair generally huff and puff more than the others, but they are not competitively disadvantaged by having to observe the same rules as everybody else.
It is preposterous to suggest that Ryanair be allowed apply their own solutions; that would give them an unfair edge.
It is preposterous to suggest that Ryanair be allowed apply their own solutions; that would give them an unfair edge.
Moral Ethos
Registered User
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The law is the law and if Ryanair don't like it tough.
Absolutely, I agree. I guess I formulated it wrong. What I meant was that this should be allowed in general. We are such a mobile society, the level of hand-holding mandated by our laws is just not appropriate for a huge chunk of the traveling public. Yes, you will find the odd person who has never been on a plane or an elderly couple entirely confused by the fast-moving world.
Instead of everyone having to pay for hand-holding that most of us will never need, I say let us reverse the situation: Most people will be able to arrange their own accommodation for a couple of days or alternative onward transport. So why not expect people to do this instead of having the airline do it for them? Even with the laws as they are now, many people were unable to avail of what the airlines offered because e.g. they needed to get home sooner than their airline could get them back.
What I propose is this: Unless you pay an extra premium, in the case of flight delays not due to a fault by your airline, you can get a later flight or make your own arrangements. Everything else you sort out on your own. On top of that, if you want to, you can pay a premium for additional services. This could either be an insurance-type thing that you pay at booking, saying "in the event of unforeseen consequences, we will arrange hotels, transport,..." or maybe a fixed fee of €50 or so per day for which the airline will sort things out while you are waiting for flights to resume.
What we have right now essentially is an insurance: Included in your ticket price is some small amount that the airline collects just in case it needs to spend money on accommodation and alternative transport because of strikes, ash clouds, floods,... I would be happy to opt out of that. Traveling alone within Europe, I can always get back home by alternative means without much hassle. Others who disagree would be free to opt into the "insurance" fee.
"the law is the law" -
Nobody says that it is not the law, for goodness sake.
The point is that many people think the law is wrong. Even the Commission for Aviation Regulation who apply the law have stated that "perhaps the law needs reviewing"
And the main pouint is that -it is not a question of whetehr Ryanair dont like it
-it is a question that airlines cannot afford to apply this law without fares increasing.
So, ultimately applying this klaw causes all consumers to suffer.
Anway, statements like "the law is the law" reminds me of Ireland thirty -odd years ago when the law did not allow contraception, divorce, homosexual acts and a whole mass of literature. Breaking the law can often be the correct thing to do.
Making something a law does not make it right !
Nobody says that it is not the law, for goodness sake.
The point is that many people think the law is wrong. Even the Commission for Aviation Regulation who apply the law have stated that "perhaps the law needs reviewing"
And the main pouint is that -it is not a question of whetehr Ryanair dont like it
-it is a question that airlines cannot afford to apply this law without fares increasing.
So, ultimately applying this klaw causes all consumers to suffer.
Anway, statements like "the law is the law" reminds me of Ireland thirty -odd years ago when the law did not allow contraception, divorce, homosexual acts and a whole mass of literature. Breaking the law can often be the correct thing to do.
Making something a law does not make it right !
.Oldnick. Admittedly I was booking at short notice because I had to go to a funeral, but €560 to Newcastle is still obscene.
If you were going on a holiday 15 kilo is not much of a bagage allowance, to bring you up to Aerlingus’s 20kilo it will cost you another £100 plus the £20 already paid for your bag, one way. (funny that the Ryanair site does not quote Euros for excess baggage)
If you were going on a holiday 15 kilo is not much of a bagage allowance, to bring you up to Aerlingus’s 20kilo it will cost you another £100 plus the £20 already paid for your bag, one way. (funny that the Ryanair site does not quote Euros for excess baggage)
Actually Undo I was thinking almost the same thing -that you are slowly becoming wiser and more mature.
On another point - it looks like I'm defending Ryanair against this law. I'm not.
I believe that Ryanair represents a rude often crass attitude that i despise; it's prices are more than misleading -they verge on the dishonest .
I'm defending all airlines and tour operators having to pay such heavy penalties because of the eurocrat law.
Ironically, Ryanair will come out of this ash disaster even stronger in competitive terms - mainly because Aer Lingus will soon collapse if they have to keep paying out compo for every stranded passenger . EI just dont have the cash. And they are getting very very worried.
Roker -you make a good point.
On another point - it looks like I'm defending Ryanair against this law. I'm not.
I believe that Ryanair represents a rude often crass attitude that i despise; it's prices are more than misleading -they verge on the dishonest .
I'm defending all airlines and tour operators having to pay such heavy penalties because of the eurocrat law.
Ironically, Ryanair will come out of this ash disaster even stronger in competitive terms - mainly because Aer Lingus will soon collapse if they have to keep paying out compo for every stranded passenger . EI just dont have the cash. And they are getting very very worried.
Roker -you make a good point.