>>Is VHI good value?

Re: Where will it all end...

Hi CM,

"....highly stressful and/or physically dangerous career...."

Crikes!! At that rate I could end up working just to pay my VHI premium :lol :lol
 
Marion,

You're trickling off the point.

Whether smokers are rated or not is irrelevent to the debate.

Personally, I think they should be, but they are not. So when determining the value of VHI/BUPA the only question you needs to ask yourself is

is it worth that price to me to avoid the risk?

The smoking issue then becomes a matter of principal, not value for money.

So brendan doesn't pay VHI/BUPA on a matter of principal.

Brendan, would you be prepared to pay £240 p.a. for VHI/BUPA if smokers had to pay £500 p.a.?

You say it should only be about £100 p.a. Does that mean that you would be willing to pay £100 p.a. for VHI/BUPA?

If so my previous statement was incorrect.

You are putting your health at risk for the sake £140 p.a.:)
 
Hi Devil's ad

While I accept the the smoking issue is not the substantive one in terms of the debate,I don't think that it is entirely irrelevant to the question of "value for money"

If smokers were charged more (if it were proven that they do in fact contribute to the costs of VHI), then, non-smoking members would perhaps benefit by reduced annual price increases adding to their perception of "good value"

I perceive I'm getting good value now, because I know that I am protected; but if the cost of VHI/BUPA continues to spiral upwards, perhaps it won't be too long before many people will take a chance and opt out of the scheme, not for reasons of principle, but because they will no longer be able to afford it.

If the impostition of higher premiums for smokers did in fact reduce costs for the VHI, then this would be a very welcome outcome. I would be very glad to be a non-smoker and I would perceive myself to be getting even better value for money.

Marion :hat
 
I have 225,000 friends

I thought that I was the only person paying for my own healthcare and was beginning to feel very lonely.

But in last Sunday's times there was an article on the subject. Obviously this applies to the UK only, but I hadn't realized that there was a debate going on in the UK, where there is proper rating of health insurance.

The number of people paying for private treatment out of their own pockets has soared by about 40% to 225,000 over the past 2 years.

Standard Life Healthcare has developed a scheme for pay-as-you-go customers. Its Choices service ...includes insurance to cover expensive operations.

Customers can choose to pay up to £1000, £2500 or £5000 themselves and the insurer will step in to cover the rest. Monthly premiums would be £5.93 for a 29 year old prepared to pay up to £5000 towards a claim.

Experts point out that big claims are rare. Most are for less than £2000, while only 4% are for amounts in excess of £5000 and only 1% are for more than £10,000.
Click to expand...

Further information on pay as you go can be found at

www.carehealth.co.uk and [broken link removed] (this might be a pyramid scheme so watch out)



Brendan
 
Re: I have 225,000 friends

Brendan,

Not that it is important to the debate, but in entire population terms this represents about 135 in the ROI.
 
Re: I have 225,000 friends

I don't know about you Freddie, but 135 close friends is enough for me !

By the way, how did you calculate this figure? The UK population is about 15 times the size of the Irish population. So, I would have thought that the corresponding figure for Ireland should be about 15,000 ( 225,000/15) Irish people pay their own health care. I know that my arithmetic has been savaged by CM, Rupert and a few others in the past, but could I be out by such a wide margin?

Brendan
 
Re: I have 225,000 friends

Oh dear!! Pressed the wrong button on the euro calculator, so I did :lol A small matter of a couple of zeros missing I'm afraid (13,500).

I suppose one shouldn't read much into these figures. After all, my decison not to join/pay for VHI or BUPA would effect a couple of people(responsibility) whereas a single person would be deciding for one.
 
Re: I have 225,000 friends

Strangely enough if you are responsible for the healthcare of a few people, you are better off paying as you go. As the premiums should be higher for a group, you are effectively spreading the risk anyway.

But with community rating, you will probably tell me that families pay the same as a single person.

Brendan
 
VHI health insurance is good value for money

a) because my company pays 100% of the cost(BUPA or VHI) so I only pay BIK but even if I were paying 100% myself I'd stump up the money for peace of mind - hard to put a monetary value on piece of mind but it's more than my VHI premium. I was paying 50% until recently.

b) no health insurance is not an option in Ireland, Britain maybe.

c) I want my father and others I know and like to have affordable health insurance.
Doesn't everyone have parents or friends? If so, why is this thread so long?

d) I don't trust BUPA in the long run.

Think of VHI as an invisible tax that unlike other taxes go where it is intended(not on sport stadiums or mansions in the Phoeinix park) then paying your premiums becomes easier.
 
Re: VHI health insurance is good value for money

Hi Geoffrey,

I would tend to agree with you on a) & b).

I'm afraid I don't quite understand your point in c)

and how come don't you trust BUPA? If they pulled out VHI will take you on with no break in cover. As in, if you transfer your insurance straight over to VHI from BUPA, existing conditions will be covered and there will be no initial period of non-cover. (currently 6 months for new members)

Essential Plus has the same cover as Plan B except it is 2/3rds of the price. Why not avail of the cheaper option available. If needs be down the line you can simply jump ship.

Dev.
 
points c and d

I'm of the opinion that BUPA aren't quite as ethical as VHI as evidenced by their fuzzy\misleading radio adverts.

My father would find it difficult to be covered by BUPA.
I hope to live long enough to be old one day and want VHI around then as I don't fancy having no health insurance when I'm older. If I don't support VHI now they won't be around when I need them. To think any other way is risky and short-sighted.

yes I know that others benefit more from VHI than I do while paying the exact same amount i.e. women and the elderly but I'm not going to be a dog in the manger about it.

If you object to high consultants fees, administration costs, etc.. which are associated with VHI then that's one thing but I don't object to VHI itself clear out upper management in VHI and those problems will be addressed.

Check out www.vhihealthcare.com/cor...unity.html for info on community rating.
 
Re: points c and d

Hi Geoffrey,

I don't understand, why would your father find it difficult to get cover with BUPA?

If you are with BUPA now they are hardly going to kick you out when you get older.

If you are with BUPA now and at a later stage you would like to change over to VHI, I don't think they will turn you down just because you had been with BUPA, in fact, I'm sure they would be glad of your custom, after all it is now a competitive market.

As for community rating, I've no problem with it. I'm wth you on the peace of mind issue. For me it's to do with how much the cover is worth to me not how much somebody else is paying for the same cover who is older/sicker/a smoker.

The VHI/BUPA issue is simply financial. I can get the same cover with both, it's just that BUPA are considerably cheaper.
 
it isn't a financial decision

Lifetime long Health cover is just too important.
My father through ignorance hasn't had health insurance for most of his life and although in good health would now not be covered by BUPA as easily as through the VHI(researched this). The time may come when I or someone I know wouldn't be covered either.

If I don't support VHI they will go out of business. The only thing that keeps BUPA in check is VHI's presence in the market.
If you believe that BUPA would keep their prices low if VHI exited the market or lost their dominant position then you are making the right decision but I don't share your beliefs.

In my personal life I routinely change vendors when I percieve there is better value to be had but healthcare isn't a place to make short term economies.

Yes, BUPA currently offers cheaper health insurance. The majority of the population thinking 'logically' should switch from VHI to BUPA which would result in VHI going out of business which leads to BUPA putting up prices and victimising certain sections of the community. Ireland being the closed economy that it is will suffer as no new health care companies enter the market.

The majority stay with VHI through inertia, I make a concious decision to stay with them.

When/If the public health service in Ireland improves to British or Scandinavian levels then I will reconsider my stance on this issue as the risks associated with changing from one to the other will be reduced.
 
Re: points c and d

Hi Geoffrey

That's a great link to the VHI website spin on community rating. I had tried to get information on the relative costs of health care without success

...With car insurance young people are regarded as the highest risks and they pay up to three or four times more than older people. In healthcare the opposite is true, older people cost up to six times more than younger people.
Click to expand...

This is crazy stuff. Young people are paying up to 5 times the true risk adjusted price for their health insurance! This makes no sense. I don't have a problem with a little bit of subsidization, but this is far worse than even I had thought.

Brendan
 
agree with you on car insurance

That is why I'm donating to the Motor Insurance Justice Action group's election campaign.

Happy that you mention motor insurance because if you go to www.MIJAG.COM's web site you will find info. on how the countries that use a quasi community rating for motor insurance have the lowest motor insurance premiums.
 
You must be joking!

When/If the public health service in Ireland improves to British or Scandinavian levels then I will reconsider my stance on this issue as the risks associated with changing from one to the other will be reduced
Click to expand...

In my experience geoffreyod, if you think the Irish public healthcare system has to IMPROVE to get to the current standards of the British system, you are very much mistaken.

I do agree with you about the excellent standards of Scandanavian healthcare, however. But in Sweden, for example, the current debate would be useless as private healthcare does not exist.
 
No, I'm not joking

You get more on the health service in the UK.

From experience within my family you get more and while it isn't as good as it could be it is still better than Ireland.

Proper maternity care and good hospices are more than we've got here.

Sweden is excellent and much better than the UK. I've worked with plenty of Swedes in my company and they all stop complaining about their high taxes when they see the benefits they haven't got here in Ireland.
 
Re: You must be joking!

Geoffrey,

You certainly make an interesting point regarding sticking with VHI.

I'm curious, why would your father not be covered as easily as through VHI?

One has a six month inital period of non-cover (VHI) the other the period is 26 weeks.

Both have a waiting period of 5 years for existing conditions.

These are for new members who are not transferring from existing cover.

I know that BUPA take an international stance on the existing private health care company you are switching from. Someone I know transferred from private health care in France to BUPA without the imposition of the waiting periods. I don't know if VHI are the same? Anyone?

What else is there? what other restrictions does BUPA apply to people like your father? Is it an age thing?

Brendan,

We're both going over old turf, but, you may be right, commuity rating may be "Crazy Stuff".

This still doesn't escape the fact that I'm only paying £20 per month for my cover. Is £20 per month worth the cover I get in return - absolutely.
 
VHI vs BUPA

Hi geoffreyod

If the circumstances which allow VHI to insure your father but not BUPA are so specific that they potentially identify you or him, then I would suggest that perhaps your opinion on the subject (that everyone should stick with VHI) might not be the best course of action for everyone.

Nonetheless, I can see how you personally might want to support a company that has demonstrated flexibility towards your own family.

tedd
 
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