Is this potentially defamatory

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galway_blow_in

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My wife was very fiercely challenged while in a nearby town a week ago and was quite upset

She did nothing to this person but the person who gave her both barrels has a long standing grudge against my wife’s brother over the fact my brother in law bought a house this other person wanted

Anyway they said the following to my wife ( no witnesses)

1. You have no decency

2 . How do you sleep at night

3. You people are disgusting

My wife thinks this is defamatory but I tend to think it’s just insulting and a baseless opinion ?

My wife was so taken aback, she just replied “ il see you in court for that “ , presumably the above while unpleasant is just that ?
 
Agree, for something to be defamatory, it must be said to or heard by someone other than the person being defamed.

If they felt threatened, then they should go to the Gardaí and it might prevent it happening again.

Brendan
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Agree, for something to be defamatory, it must be said to or heard by someone other than the person being defamed.

If they felt threatened, then they should go to the Gardaí and it might prevent it happening again.

Brendan
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My wife didn’t feel threatened but was deeply insulted

If the above was overheard by someone else, would it qualify as defamatory?, thought defamation must be untrue ?, this person told my wife what they thought of her but is telling someone “ you have no decency “ really only an opinion?
 
Brendan Burgess said:
She would have to prove it was untrue and it lowered her reputation in the eyes of the common man.

I suspect that she has better things to do. The courts certainly have.

Brendan
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I would not be in favour of her going to a solicitor, as you say above, you have to prove something is untrue , presumably saying someone is “ disgusting or has no decency “ is very different to accusing someone of stealing? , how does one prove they aren’t disgusting or that they have decency?
 
Statements of honest opinion are generally not defamatory: there would have to be a factual allegation, communicated to others, that damages your reputation. See https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/civil_law/law_on_defamation.html

Some examples. I can "safely" say
@Brendan Burgess is disgusting the way he carries on on this website
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since there is no factual allegation here, just my "honest" opinion of his character.

It might be defamatory if I said
Brendan passes on AAM users' personal information to the Revenue commissioners
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because reasonable people could differ on how appalling that was, and how damaging such a revelation would be.

Whereas it would almost certainly be defamatory if I said
Brendan sells AAM users' personal information to third-world investment scammers in England
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unless I was a journalist and had reasonable grounds to believe this might be true (since it would certainly be in the public interest).

Even if a court finds something defamatory, there is the matter of damages.
 
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MugsGame said:
Statements of honest opinion are generally not defamatory: there would have to be a factual allegation, communicated to others, that damages your reputation. See https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/civil_law/law_on_defamation.html

Some examples. I can "safely" say

since there is no factual allegiation here, just my "honest" opinion of his character.

It might be defamatory if I said

because reasonable people could differ on how appalling that was, and how damaging such a revelation would be.

Whereas it would almost certainly be defamatory if I said

unless I was a journalist and had reasonable grounds to believe this might be true (since it would certainly be in the public interest).

Even if a court finds something defamatory, there is the matter of damages.
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My wife isn’t going to pursue this , I was just trying to develop my understanding of the whole area of defamation

The other individual also shouted “ you people are disgusting “ rather than you are disgusting, they were venting at her because her brother pipped them to the sale of a house; my wife has no history of any kind with this individual but would have known who they were

My wife thought making court threats would deter them from acting like this or doing it again , she wasn’t accused of wrongdoing, she thought character assassination might be a factor however?
 
No, there is no statute against 'character assassination'. They may very well genuinely find you 'indecent' or 'disgusting'. Even if they don't, there's no factual element to the claim - it's not provable whether or not you are objectively 'disgusting'. No more than calling someone 'testy' or 'high-handed' (apologies, couldn't resist!). And as for the 'good-natured' inquiry into your wife's sleeping habits ...

More extreme insults could rise to the level of a criminal offence, e.g.
It is an offence to use threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour in a public place with the intention of breaching the peace.
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I doubt the Guards or DPP would be interesting in pursuing a case based on what you've posted (assuming the shotgun is metaphorical!), but (as others have suggested above) a community Guard could pop around for a friendly chat to educate them about the law. Although equally, a visit from the Guards could provoke an escalation if they have a persecution complex.

It would certainly be no harm to have the encounter on record, in case the behaviour escalates (the other party sounds a little unhinged, so may not act rationally in future).

(IANAL, YMMV.)
 
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Páid said:
I'm pretty sure the burden of proof is on the person who made the objectionable statement or claim.
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Yes, the statement is assumed to be false unless the person can prove it was true. But I think the victim would have to prove that it actually damaged them.
 
MugsGame said:
Yes, the statement is assumed to be false unless the person can prove it was true. But I think the victim would have to prove that it actually damaged them.
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MugsGame said:
Yes, the statement is assumed to be false unless the person can prove it was true. But I think the victim would have to prove that it actually damaged them.
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How do you prove someone is disgusting or has No decency?

If you can’t prove the above assertions ?, have you by default defamed someone?
 
Back in the day, if someone admitted to engaging regularly in intimate activity pre-marriage, the local holy Joe, could in the presence of others say:

"you've no decency, what you're doing is disgusting, you should be ashamed of yourself, etc. etc."

Is/Was this defamation?!

Would it matter if the intimate activity was of a homo rather than hetero nature?
 
JimmyB99 said:
Back in the day, if someone admitted to engaging regularly in intimate activity pre-marriage, the local holy Joe, could in the presence of others say:

"you've no decency, what you're doing is disgusting, you should be ashamed of yourself, etc. etc."
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I suspect that was a myth. I've never even heard it said that an actual human being said something like that to anyone else. And the area I grew up in was very conservative.
 
JimmyB99 said:
Back in the day, if someone admitted to engaging regularly in intimate activity pre-marriage, the local holy Joe, could in the presence of others say:

"you've no decency, what you're doing is disgusting, you should be ashamed of yourself, etc. etc."

Is/Was this defamation?!

Would it matter if the intimate activity was of a homo rather than hetero nature?
Click to expand...
They'll put you in jail now in Indonesia if you did any of the above.

To bring it back to the OP, there is a good summary here

The law on defamation in Ireland

You can take legal action against a person or corporation who makes a ‘defamatory statement’ to another person.
www.citizensinformation.ie www.citizensinformation.ie
 
@galway_blow_in

This is not defamation in any universe as no third party was involved.

What it could be is the beginning of harassment. The legal bar is very high here for a conviction bear in mind.

If you're looking for a solution then a solicitor's letter asking this person to stay away from your wife is one way to go. It would have no legal effect but might cause them to think twice before approaching her again.
 
With respect, the show here is really a continuance of what was always prevalent in Ireland especially concerning land and nothing more than some sort of principle is involved. You can’t eat principle; don’t leave it eat you. Your wife’s brother has the house, he can live, eat, etc there. My advice is unless you have a watertight case let matters rest. It’s time for your wife and you to keep your opinions to yourselves.
 
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