Is the black market affecting business?

B

baldyman27

Registered User
Messages
639
I've noticed lately that I am getting more offers of cash for jobs that I'm tendering for, which I won't take for patriotic and taxation reasons. Inevitably, I haven't gotten any of these jobs and it is glaringly obvious that someone else has taken them on. The net result is that my business is gone very quiet (it's in construction so that's a given anyway) and looks like it's going to stay that way for the foreseeable future.

My reckoning is that some businesses are, to put it politely, screwing their C2 status in this year and won't have their C2s re-issued next year, which should hopefully free up more work for legitimate and honest businesses. Problem is trying to keep one's head above water until that happens. Basically, some of us are sitting on the sidelines with no work, waiting for other businesses to go down the drain and hoping we can still be around when they eventually and inevitably do.

I'm quoting jobs at cost and getting beaten on price so it's quite obvious that something has to lose out, most likely its revenue. Is this affecting other business, especially outside construction as its the obvoius one.
 
baldyman27 said:
I've noticed lately that I am getting more offers of cash for jobs that I'm tendering for, which I won't take for patriotic and taxation reasons. Inevitably, I haven't gotten any of these jobs and it is glaringly obvious that someone else has taken them on. The net result is that my business is gone very quiet (it's in construction so that's a given anyway) and looks like it's going to stay that way for the foreseeable future.

My reckoning is that some businesses are, to put it politely, screwing their C2 status in this year and won't have their C2s re-issued next year, which should hopefully free up more work for legitimate and honest businesses. Problem is trying to keep one's head above water until that happens. Basically, some of us are sitting on the sidelines with no work, waiting for other businesses to go down the drain and hoping we can still be around when they eventually and inevitably do.

I'm quoting jobs at cost and getting beaten on price so it's quite obvious that something has to lose out, most likely its revenue. Is this affecting other business, especially outside construction as its the obvoius one.
Click to expand...

I've also noticed that a lot of people are buying tobacco pouches and cigarettes from black market dealers, so the revenue is missing out there too.

In difficult times like these the black market always flourishes I'm afraid. i can't offer up any solutions.
 
I know that revenue did blitz several "large" construction sites last year. Dont think they found anything other wise would have made the news. Think thats why they figured they would go after the foreign cars again on the roads. Oh and speed checks also seem to be on ther increase and not at what would be deemed traffic accident blackspots.
 
baldyman27 said:
I've noticed lately that I am getting more offers of cash for jobs that I'm tendering for, which I won't take for patriotic and taxation reasons. Inevitably, I haven't gotten any of these jobs and it is glaringly obvious that someone else has taken them on. The net result is that my business is gone very quiet (it's in construction so that's a given anyway) and looks like it's going to stay that way for the foreseeable future.

My reckoning is that some businesses are, to put it politely, screwing their C2 status in this year and won't have their C2s re-issued next year, which should hopefully free up more work for legitimate and honest businesses. Problem is trying to keep one's head above water until that happens. Basically, some of us are sitting on the sidelines with no work, waiting for other businesses to go down the drain and hoping we can still be around when they eventually and inevitably do.

I'm quoting jobs at cost and getting beaten on price so it's quite obvious that something has to lose out, most likely its revenue. Is this affecting other business, especially outside construction as its the obvoius one.
Click to expand...


The cash jobs never went away, probably with so much working going on over the past few years it was less noticable, the hair & beauty industry is full of "mobile" practitioners who by and large dont pay any sort of tax.

I admire your stance to avoid the cash jobs to save you the hassle from revenue. However if, god forbid, you have to close your business I think you wouldnt be feeling so patriotic when the dole office tells you as a self employed person your entitled to feck all, despite all the employers prsi, vat, corporation tax etc that you give them over the years.
 
The black economy is definitely growing again. This is particularly noticeable in service related work, home repairs, etc. There is also a noticeable rise in Revenue audits, in particular in VAT audits in recent months. Revenue have obviously noticed this and are keeping the thumb on the pulse as it were. There is, I believe , a certain attitude that well the government have "done" us so now it's payback time. There is also a genuine problem where so many now find such huge drops in income that the cheapest and not necessarily the correct solution is being used to problems. If someone is on a fixed low income and their washing machine breaks down they cannot be blamed for getting it fixed "for cash" rather than invoiced+VAT. It's an unfortunate position as it leads to less revenue at a time when expenditure on Socal Welfare is rising. I certainly don't envy any person charged with trying to meet demands on exchequer coffers at this time.
 
Graham_07 said:
The black economy is definitely growing again. This is particularly noticeable in service related work, home repairs, etc. There is also a noticeable rise in Revenue audits, in particular in VAT audits in recent months. Revenue have obviously noticed this and are keeping the thumb on the pulse as it were. There is, I believe , a certain attitude that well the government have "done" us so now it's payback time. There is also a genuine problem where so many now find such huge drops in income that the cheapest and not necessarily the correct solution is being used to problems. If someone is on a fixed low income and their washing machine breaks down they cannot be blamed for getting it fixed "for cash" rather than invoiced+VAT. It's an unfortunate position as it leads to less revenue at a time when expenditure on Socal Welfare is rising. I certainly don't envy any person charged with trying to meet demands on exchequer coffers at this time.
Click to expand...

Like Baldyman I'm self-employed and finding it harder and harder to get work.

There are guys out there who are quoting for jobs charging prices that just about cover their costs.

Charging VAT for a job is an almost sure sign that you won't get the job.
 
We are actually quite busy at the moment and 99% of our clients are charged inc VAT. The other 1% are 10 minute jobs where we charge €20 or €30 and get paid cash. My accountant puts a cash declaration in our tax return.

A big reason why we are busy is 40% of our current work is through the SEI grant scheme. We also do a lot of maintance which is always ongoing. Thankfully we had a reputation before the recession which will hopefully see us through.

Latly when I have finished a quote, I will hand deliver it to the customer and explain all the costs and the benefits of using our service. I am selling it harder than I used too.
 
S.L.F said:
Charging VAT for a job is an almost sure sign that you won't get the job.
Click to expand...

That's the way it seems to me now as well.

DavyJones said:
.

Latly when I have finished a quote, I will hand deliver it to the customer and explain all the costs and the benefits of using our service. I am selling it harder than I used too.
Click to expand...

I always did this and still do. It makes things easier for me and the client, especially as there is a big potential for unforeseen extras and variations in groundworks. All part of me trying to be honest and upfront about everything.I'll tell you one thing though, its getting harder and harder to remain honest.As the old saying goes, 'Did you ever meet an honest millionaire?'
 
baldyman27 said:
I always did this and still do. It makes things easier for me and the client, especially as there is a big potential for unforeseen extras and variations in groundworks. All part of me trying to be honest and upfront about everything.I'll tell you one thing though, its getting harder and harder to remain honest.As the old saying goes, 'Did you ever meet an honest millionaire?'
Click to expand...

It's tough out there alright. I have to remain straight because I pay staff and have(traceable) accounts from suppliers so I need to prove where the money comes from.

I have often thought I would be better off letting people go and closing up shop, then just operate under the rader for a few years until things improve. Not drawing the dole but working for cash. We work in different fields and every job you do is pretty big where we do loads of small things along with the bigger projects.

Just because we are busy doesn't mean we are making money. Getting paid is extremely difficult. If you were willing to work for nothing, you could have work 24/7.

When I discuss quotes with people, I try and make them aware that they are dealing with their biggest asset, be it their home or business and not using someone who is legit is a very risky game, what may save you now but may cost you dear in the future. It is worth the gamble?

I can only hope that things improve in the near enough future or I could be added my staff to the ever growing dole line.
 
Im finding that Im getting a lot of calls for quotes (which I dont have a problem with) and as Im semi retired, Id consider my self fair with my prices (although I do charge the VAT).

A job where you would have got 60 euro for before is now down to 50, and when you consider that you have to open a door, possible change a lock, at 2am on a Saturday morning on the other side of dublin or WIcklow (travelling from Clonee), Id consider the price fair.

However any cheap jobs Ive quoted for reciently, Ive failed to get, which got me thinking, so over the last few weeks I been quoting 20 euro give or take, just to see if Id get a call back, I didnot, so my conclusion is that the jobs dont exist or there a cowboys out there checking out what every one else is charging.

Bear in mind that 20 euro would not cover the cost of diesel, adverts, new lock, depreciation etc.
 
I agree that Black Market economy was always there to an extent but because there was more than enough work to go around, nobody really noticed.

I actually feel sorry for any tradesman in particular trying to keep their heads above water the legit way. A recent study I saw claims the economy is going to get worse before better. The honest guys will be faced with the choice of either going down the cash route or signing on. In this scenario, I cant blame any of them for putting their own financial survival first.
 
Re black market, like Graham, I see it is "particularly noticeable in service related work". Legitimate, tax compliant businesses can't compete on price with 'cash deal' providers. Unfortunately, it makes the honest businesses look overpriced when the reality is many have reduced their prices to rock bottom and are just covering costs and taxes. Developing customer relations has never been more important !

Graham_07 said:
Not sure about that but Chuck Feeney is a pretty good example of as honest a billionaire as you get.
Click to expand...
PaddyBloggit said:
guilt perhaps?
Click to expand...

Maybe, but couldn't he have simply just given the money away? Instead, he has been very proactive in ensuring that his money has gone to good use. I'd never even heard of him until I saw the programme on him 2 weeks ago, very inspirational.
 
Its killing legitimate business, not affecting it.

This will be worse that the black market of the 70's & 80's. Why any individual of sound mind would choose to pay tax and vat to a government that is haemorraging money through inefficiencies is beyond me.

Unfortunately I am in business and do not have choice but to do my duty and collect on our leaders behalf. Cash cowboys are working for half the money and doing work to half the required standards. The consumer is being ripped off, again.
 
Graham_07 said:
T There is, I believe , a certain attitude that well the government have "done" us so now it's payback time.
Click to expand...

I think its more a case of "done well" from us rather than "done us". Whats the point in paying more taxes so that I can pay for more first class fas flights etc etc
 
Not that it's a sector I avail of, but my honest impression was that there has been no discernible decrease or increase in black market activities for the last 20 years or so.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top