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emma09
Guest
Mark71, MABS told me that they cannot give financial advice regarding Investment Property as it is a "type of business". However, they said that the investment property payments should be the "last" in your list after making payments for your home/utility bills/ groceries etc. If I do not have any funds left over to make payment to bank for the investment.. well then I do not.
He also said that Banks took just as much risk as you did with the Investment Property since there is no guarantee with any business. He did not say it in so many words since he couldn't give his "professional" opinion about this but did say if it was him he would hand back the keys and let the banks chase you for the remaining debt which in effect will be a personal loan which again will be fairly down the list of creditors!
He also said that Banks took just as much risk as you did with the Investment Property since there is no guarantee with any business. He did not say it in so many words since he couldn't give his "professional" opinion about this but did say if it was him he would hand back the keys and let the banks chase you for the remaining debt which in effect will be a personal loan which again will be fairly down the list of creditors!
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SMILIE
Guest
two investment properties
prop 1 - worth 140,000, owe 310,000
Rental Income, 850 per month
Prop 2, worth 180,000, owe 340,000
Rental Income , 900 per month
PPR - worth 240,000, owe 530,000
Also house in dire need of repair/renovation - was bought to renovate and extend when investment properties got more equity !!! Family of 6 living in one room downstairs, damp and mould in rooms
Mortgage 2200 - 70% of income !!
On temp measure of interest only for 3 months as we have been living off overdrafts and credit cards
Needs :
Suitable house to live in .... no hope of getting money to do house up
Cant make payments on mortgages (investments), properties in huge negative equity
Suggestions ???
prop 1 - worth 140,000, owe 310,000
Rental Income, 850 per month
Prop 2, worth 180,000, owe 340,000
Rental Income , 900 per month
PPR - worth 240,000, owe 530,000
Also house in dire need of repair/renovation - was bought to renovate and extend when investment properties got more equity !!! Family of 6 living in one room downstairs, damp and mould in rooms
Mortgage 2200 - 70% of income !!
On temp measure of interest only for 3 months as we have been living off overdrafts and credit cards
Needs :
Suitable house to live in .... no hope of getting money to do house up
Cant make payments on mortgages (investments), properties in huge negative equity
Suggestions ???
S
SMILIE
Guest
Huge Negative Equity - need advice
Would appreciate any comments or advice on my last post ?
Would appreciate any comments or advice on my last post ?
Who is on the hook for each property ?
What kind of income security (job security) do you have ?
I know a few couples in a similar situation ,
1 ) Stop paying mortgages on investment properties now.
2) Stop paying mortgage on home now ,its not worth fighting for if its so run down.Stop paying credit cards , overdrafts etc
3) Build up a war chest with the rent received from investment properties
4) Move you're Family into a rental house , in the same area or close by to lesson disruption to the kids , max rent 1500
5) Ignore the banks letters/phone calls until you get court papers for repossessions , then consent to the repossessions.
6) Consent to judgments sought by bank against you on the properties when you receive the papers .
7) Turn up in court when you are required to have your means examined by a judge to see how much your Family finances can afford to pay towards the outstanding judgments / if there are 3 judgments against you (one for each repossessed property )
I don't think any of the banks would try bankrupt you,too costly to them and no chance of getting anything from you.
I think UK bankruptcy is a last resort for you unless everything is in your sole name. (mortgages)
Down the line
You and your family will be much happier in your lives.
You will be renting a house you are happy to live in with your family if not you can move .
You may still have a decent income.
If you loose your job/s you will qualify for rent allowance having rented the house for at least 6 months.
A judge may eventually order you to pay circa 100 -150 off each judgment going forward (or less) after accessing your means. He first takes into consideration your families financial needs, but i'm sure you could live with that.
Judgments are unenforceable after 12 years.
If you anticipate any inheritance in the future from parents etc. ask them to be willed to your kids instead.
Forget about getting a loan or credit for a long time.
Put the nightmare behind you and forget about trying to keep hold of these properties.Your family will thank you for it , Ive seen it happen.
If the above is against your religion or morals then disregard
What kind of income security (job security) do you have ?
I know a few couples in a similar situation ,
1 ) Stop paying mortgages on investment properties now.
2) Stop paying mortgage on home now ,its not worth fighting for if its so run down.Stop paying credit cards , overdrafts etc
3) Build up a war chest with the rent received from investment properties
4) Move you're Family into a rental house , in the same area or close by to lesson disruption to the kids , max rent 1500
5) Ignore the banks letters/phone calls until you get court papers for repossessions , then consent to the repossessions.
6) Consent to judgments sought by bank against you on the properties when you receive the papers .
7) Turn up in court when you are required to have your means examined by a judge to see how much your Family finances can afford to pay towards the outstanding judgments / if there are 3 judgments against you (one for each repossessed property )
I don't think any of the banks would try bankrupt you,too costly to them and no chance of getting anything from you.
I think UK bankruptcy is a last resort for you unless everything is in your sole name. (mortgages)
Down the line
You and your family will be much happier in your lives.
You will be renting a house you are happy to live in with your family if not you can move .
You may still have a decent income.
If you loose your job/s you will qualify for rent allowance having rented the house for at least 6 months.
A judge may eventually order you to pay circa 100 -150 off each judgment going forward (or less) after accessing your means. He first takes into consideration your families financial needs, but i'm sure you could live with that.
Judgments are unenforceable after 12 years.
If you anticipate any inheritance in the future from parents etc. ask them to be willed to your kids instead.
Forget about getting a loan or credit for a long time.
Put the nightmare behind you and forget about trying to keep hold of these properties.Your family will thank you for it , Ive seen it happen.
If the above is against your religion or morals then disregard
It seems Emma does not like ANY solutions offered here and, there has been many. So Emma,It seems you bit off loads more than you can chew so bite the bullet and take your medicine. There are plenty of wannabee landlords out there. I would have sympathy if not for the 2 (we have 3 properties) attitude coming from you. So suck it up.
Debt forgiveness is for families not speculators.
Debt forgiveness is for families not speculators.
Smilie, Gduffy's advice would unfortunately be my advice too. I know of people at step 4 of his list and to the first half of step 5. The current term is 'strategic defaulters'.
Emma and others please be aware that when the banks go after you they will then show their metal by penalising you with compound interest. I've seen their letters. So on top of a mortgage arears and your current interest rate, you'll be hit with more interst of 6% (Bank of Ireland). You're like a cat with a mouse.
Emma and others please be aware that when the banks go after you they will then show their metal by penalising you with compound interest. I've seen their letters. So on top of a mortgage arears and your current interest rate, you'll be hit with more interst of 6% (Bank of Ireland). You're like a cat with a mouse.
shigllgetcha
Registered User
- Messages
- 216
You dont have the choice in the long term, the bank will eventually take this decision out of your hands. They wont let you repay the money at a rate that will never repay the full amount
You may be able to hold out until the new legislation comes in and go bankrupt in Ireland and keep your jobs, might be a best case scenario.
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SMILIE
Guest
the UK seems very attractive but thought of uprooting family is hard. We have great support here and 4 very small children. We can't face another winter in our house and havent money to do it up , we could afford to rent suitable house if we were'nt paying the mortgage .. if we default on the all are we not making the debt even bigger
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SMILIE
Guest
my husband has good secure income , just so much money gets eaten up with massive mortgages , i'm on a CareerBreak from public sector to mind children
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SMILIE
Guest
all properties held jointly
Life is hard Smilie sometimes, that's the unfortunate fact. But there are good times too. While the kids are very young would be a good time to do the UK route.
You have your thinking wrong on the debt increasing. If you default yes the debt gets bigger, but you cannot pay it now so you are actually defaulting. You are basically running and going backwards.
Have you tried talking to the banks before you do anything drastic. You never know maybe they are coming to their senses and realising it's better to deal with you, maybe give you some debt writedown etc to a sustainable level. No harm in having a meeting. And at that meeting ask them how you can ever repay the debt, mention you're thinking of the UK etc etc.
One thing for sure, six of you in one room is a disaster. Would moving into one of the investment properties not make more sense.
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emma09
Guest
OMG!.... I think I am insane. Because I truly do not understand your logic or that of Brontes sarcastic posts.
I am NOT looking for debt forgiveness. Running away to UK is running away from Debt. I am NOT running away.
I was NOT a speculator....I was trying to get on the property ladder like so many others. I was never going to keep investment properties.... the plan was to sell them once we had secured a decent family home. My husband was earning good 5 figures salary a d I was very close to that figure. We could not in a reasonable mind think that he would lose job and stay unemployed foe nearly 3 years which ate into our savings. My wages were cut to nearly 30%.
Do you guys even know what's going on in the real world. go to UK..??? Do what..state d in the dole que..?? Holding onto my kids....telling them...we have no house to live..not sure where the money will come from for food and clothing..... no one to speak to since we will be strangers in UK...we do not have any family living there.
Until 3 years ago...I had never missed any bill...mortgage or otherwise. I paid all my taxes. I have PSID NPPR and Household tax. I have managed to clear off most of my personal loans. I do not use my credit card. All I am stressed about is over inflated mortgages that we signed up for...yes I admit no one forced me to....but decision of signing those papers was made when we had the .means to pay them off .....our means have changed.... we havent were still the same people.
The only thing that we are asking is the way the banks were bailed out...that people who are trying their best should be given some sort of help...extended mortgages...lower interest rates...or something... I am not an expert in these matters but do understand that ho est hard working people who are struggling should be given some sort of help.
Emma please do not put me in the same phrase as four18 who was very rude. You only have to look at his other threads to see you should ignore him.
I wish you to retract saying I was being sarcastic. I was trying to be helpful, just because you don't like my advice don't label it as something else. I also think that I mentioned I was not going to pussy foot around and tell people everything will be ok, when it will not. Not unless they themselves take the hard decisions.
I wish you to retract saying I was being sarcastic. I was trying to be helpful, just because you don't like my advice don't label it as something else. I also think that I mentioned I was not going to pussy foot around and tell people everything will be ok, when it will not. Not unless they themselves take the hard decisions.
shigllgetcha
Registered User
- Messages
- 216
removed
Hi emma09,
Consider this route:
1) Don't pay anything more on both investment properties. Continue to pay your home mortgage.
2) Divert any rent received from rental properties to reduce your other loans as quickly as possible before repossessions.
3) Ignore (don't reply) to any letters/phone calls from the banks in regards to your investment properties until you receive court papers for repossession of the investment properties. Hire a solicitor to send your consent to repossess the properties to the bank and court .
4) The Banks will get judgments against you for your outstanding mortgage(s) balances and costs which will be minimal if you don't fight it. Any sale achieved in the future will be deducted from the amount you owe AFAIK. Your name/address will be published in Stubbs .
5) The Banks will probably get judgment mortgages on your home and you will get a visit from the sheriff ,if you don't have any very valuable items ,for example, speedboat , fully paid for cars, caravans ,valuable art pieces, etc he will most likely leave and report nothing of value to the court. He doesn't take cloths,beds,couches,tv's ,kids bikes etc. etc.
6) The Banks will apply to the court to have your means examined and to determine how much you should/can afford to pay to the banks on a monthly basis, based on your income /expenditure.You must attend the public court. You must fully engage and be honest with the court at this time . If you don't keep up the court ordered payments you could be imprisoned ,but it is a long process and you would have ample time to reinstate payments or apply to have your means reassessed.
This route will eventually leave you in a position whereby you stay living in your home, you keep your jobs,you no longer have any investment properties,you no longer have the hassles of being a landlord,you move on with your lives.
Downside you have to keep up the court ordered payments for maybe up to 12 years. If your financial situation worsens in time you can reapply to the court to have the payment reduced.
I think the fact your home is in negative equity the bank wont be able to get a well charging order for its sale and will go away once you keep up the court payments .
You need to play the system to your families best advantage,morals and fairness have long left this land !
Good luck
Consider this route:
1) Don't pay anything more on both investment properties. Continue to pay your home mortgage.
2) Divert any rent received from rental properties to reduce your other loans as quickly as possible before repossessions.
3) Ignore (don't reply) to any letters/phone calls from the banks in regards to your investment properties until you receive court papers for repossession of the investment properties. Hire a solicitor to send your consent to repossess the properties to the bank and court .
4) The Banks will get judgments against you for your outstanding mortgage(s) balances and costs which will be minimal if you don't fight it. Any sale achieved in the future will be deducted from the amount you owe AFAIK. Your name/address will be published in Stubbs .
5) The Banks will probably get judgment mortgages on your home and you will get a visit from the sheriff ,if you don't have any very valuable items ,for example, speedboat , fully paid for cars, caravans ,valuable art pieces, etc he will most likely leave and report nothing of value to the court. He doesn't take cloths,beds,couches,tv's ,kids bikes etc. etc.
6) The Banks will apply to the court to have your means examined and to determine how much you should/can afford to pay to the banks on a monthly basis, based on your income /expenditure.You must attend the public court. You must fully engage and be honest with the court at this time . If you don't keep up the court ordered payments you could be imprisoned ,but it is a long process and you would have ample time to reinstate payments or apply to have your means reassessed.
This route will eventually leave you in a position whereby you stay living in your home, you keep your jobs,you no longer have any investment properties,you no longer have the hassles of being a landlord,you move on with your lives.
Downside you have to keep up the court ordered payments for maybe up to 12 years. If your financial situation worsens in time you can reapply to the court to have the payment reduced.
I think the fact your home is in negative equity the bank wont be able to get a well charging order for its sale and will go away once you keep up the court payments .
You need to play the system to your families best advantage,morals and fairness have long left this land !
Good luck
E
emma09
Guest
GDUFFY...you are giving this advice based on personal experience...???
I am making payment to 1 investment property on interest only basis as that's the way it was set up for term of the mortgage and it is on tracker rate which is well covered by the rent I get from the property. I would sell it if it wasn't in negative equity.
My home has been negotiated on a reduced payment which is still paying approx 350monthly towards capital.
The 2nd investment is not giving me enough for even to ask for interest only ...and the bank is not negotiating on reduced payment and that is where the problem i
I have saved 2000 euros from the rent I get to help me with the re possession or any other related charges for voluntary surrender.
As for never being able to repay...well I checked my life policy and according to it we are covered for over 100k in excess of our home mortgage and its a life term policy meaning even if we were to live up to 100 we will still get insurance ..the living g spouse will get the amount to pay off home mortgage plus 100k extra for any other debt. When the spouse will go our kids will get the same amount and we are hoping in next 50-60 years the kids will get some cash in their hands even after paying mortgages plus the 3 homes...if they are not repossessed!!!! This is what our life insurance advisor has advised us.
I am making payment to 1 investment property on interest only basis as that's the way it was set up for term of the mortgage and it is on tracker rate which is well covered by the rent I get from the property. I would sell it if it wasn't in negative equity.
My home has been negotiated on a reduced payment which is still paying approx 350monthly towards capital.
The 2nd investment is not giving me enough for even to ask for interest only ...and the bank is not negotiating on reduced payment and that is where the problem i
I have saved 2000 euros from the rent I get to help me with the re possession or any other related charges for voluntary surrender.
As for never being able to repay...well I checked my life policy and according to it we are covered for over 100k in excess of our home mortgage and its a life term policy meaning even if we were to live up to 100 we will still get insurance ..the living g spouse will get the amount to pay off home mortgage plus 100k extra for any other debt. When the spouse will go our kids will get the same amount and we are hoping in next 50-60 years the kids will get some cash in their hands even after paying mortgages plus the 3 homes...if they are not repossessed!!!! This is what our life insurance advisor has advised us.
Allison1707
Registered User
- Messages
- 30
the living g spouse will get the amount to pay off home mortgage plus 100k extra for any other debt. When the spouse will go our kids will get the same amount and we are hoping in next 50-60 years the kids will get some cash in their hands even after paying mortgages plus the 3 homes...if they are not repossessed!!!! This is what our life insurance advisor has advised us.
Hi Emma
I’m sorry but oh my god are you serious??? you are now talking about your or your husband dying and maybe in the next 50 or 60years the children getting some nest egg and three houses?
Very harsh here but WAKE UP!! You need to let this dream go. Can you really spend the next 5/6 decades chasing a dream and keeping the wolf from the door? I know it is hard but you don’t have many options and for the sake of your sanity and your home happiness would you not consider re-visiting the Bank and not leaving there until you get some suitable surrender agreement on property no 3? Let it go.
You have mentioned that your home is not fit to live in esp. with small children and the winter coming, do you have anywhere else to go? parents? friends? Regardless of investments etc your health is your wealth and you need to concentrate on making your home livable if no other alternative accommodation can be found.
Good luck.
Hi Emma
I’m sorry but oh my god are you serious??? you are now talking about your or your husband dying and maybe in the next 50 or 60years the children getting some nest egg and three houses?
Very harsh here but WAKE UP!! You need to let this dream go. Can you really spend the next 5/6 decades chasing a dream and keeping the wolf from the door? I know it is hard but you don’t have many options and for the sake of your sanity and your home happiness would you not consider re-visiting the Bank and not leaving there until you get some suitable surrender agreement on property no 3? Let it go.
You have mentioned that your home is not fit to live in esp. with small children and the winter coming, do you have anywhere else to go? parents? friends? Regardless of investments etc your health is your wealth and you need to concentrate on making your home livable if no other alternative accommodation can be found.
Good luck.