I think I am tired of being "Green".

[T McGibney]

What's bananas about the banana packaging is that that the banana actually comes in the most eco friendly packaging
But we as humans think we can improve on it while forgetting that nature doesn't make mistakes

Ok, here's a challenge for you. Buy a half dozen bananas this evening. Bring them home, store half of them in a bowl with apples, oranges and other fruit. Put the other half into a closed plastic bag well away from other fruit. Leave them there until say Saturday, and check the condition of both lots. There will be a stark difference between them.

 

[Cervelo]

Here's a challenge for you. Buy a half dozen bananas this evening.

I don't need to, as a cyclist I buy and eat bananas on a regular basis rather then foolish spending my money on energy gels and suchlike
Every Thursday I buy seven bananas along with apples, pears and oranges and they all go into the one fruit bowl and are consumed over the week
The following Thursday morning I eat the last banana, is it the same colour as the on I ate last Friday, of course not, is it a little softer and a bit sweeter
Yes it is but is it in anyway less enjoyable or unsuitable for consumption, no it's not

I will agree that during the summer I choose greener one because the don't ripen as quickly as the yellow ones
Don't forget that the poor old banana is a couple of weeks old by the time it hits the supermarket shelves
And it's not the plastic bag that keeps it fresher its keeping the banana at a lower temperature that extends the shelve life

But let me ask you a question
How long do you think a natural product should last, is a week not long enough!!
Or do you think we should be adding more plastic waste to our systems just so as it can stay fresher for a day or two longer

 

[T McGibney]

But let me ask you a question
How long do you think a natural product should last, is a week not long enough!!

There's no simple answer to that question. All I know is that the quicker an item of fruit ripens and rots, the more food waste we will have.

Or do you think we should be adding more plastic waste to our systems just so as it can stay fresher for a day or two longer

As I said above, there is a tradeoff between packaging and food waste.

I'm personally ambivalent about where exactly the line is drawn in terms of that tradeoff but it's simplistic in the extreme to pretend that tradeoff doesn't exist and that food producers and marketers are somehow stupid to be unnecessarily incurring pointless packaging costs.

My challenge to you stands, by the way. It's an interesting experiment.

 

[ddraws]

I am all for more offshore wind, and LNG.

Yet even Minister Ryan himself, no doubt a massive supporter of offshore wind, has stated that "it takes a month to build an offshore wind turbine and seven years to get the permissions".

I wonder has he done anything to remove the blockages / permissions / consents?

Yes, a number of steps of this sort have been taken to support offshore wind since the Green's have been in Government

The establishment of MARA which will allow offshore wind developers to apply for consents.
Launched the first auction under the Offshore Renewable Energy Support Scheme.
Publication of the Planning and Development bill which will reform the planning system.

 

[ddraws]

He appears to remain very much in favour of the right of any citizen with a bee in his/her bonnet to object to almost any proposed development on the basis that the local rats, slug or cockroach population may be affected adversely. Hence his stated desire to see interconnectors installed from as many other countries to Ireland as quickly as possible. It's probably much quicker to design and install an undersea electricity cable from (say) New Zealand to Ireland than it is to get planning permission for a wind farm in Leitrim!

I dont think that is a fair reflection, like anything there is a balance to be struck. He has been https://www.irishtimes.com/transport/2023/03/23/painfully-slow-planning-decisions-are-holding-ireland-back-says-ryan/ (vocal) that the planning system needs reform . Interconnection is a necessary part of a renewables based energy system. You can learn more about the importance of interconnection in the Govt's policy on the matter

 

[Leo]

Why exactly are people getting in a huff elsewhere on AAM about pensions if no-one gives a hoot about the planet we plan to explore in retirement? Does inheritance tax even matter if future generations are going to spend all their money trying to fix everything we are destroying?

Perhaps because the death of the planet will take generations and in the meantime, the wealthy will be able to afford measures like air-con and filtration, better food, and to live in more habitable places.

 

[PGF2016]

So far I have learned that people are sick of doing the bare minimum to care for the planet because:

• Recycling is annoying
• Bicycles are annoying
• A politician is annoying
• The same government leader was planning to take a flight in order to do his job
• His political party is doing things they said they would do
• The party is also not doing enough of the things they said they would do
• The party is trying to improve things but is not doing it perfectly
• People who never voted for the party are going to continue not voting for them
• Former supporters will now vote for less eco-friendly candidates as a punishment (seems logical)
• A footpath was replaced
• Envelope design is annoying
• Someone's friend didn't text them and it hurt their feelings (fair)
• Some other countries are not doing enough so we shouldn't bother
• Some countries are doing more than us
• Various random individuals are disrespectful so we should behave like a melodramatic tragicomic curmudgeon from a TV show
• Banana packaging is a contentious issue, particularly in Reykjavik

This is like a fever dream scripted by Ayn Rand and Franz Kafka.

Why exactly are people getting in a huff elsewhere on AAM about pensions if no-one gives a hoot about the planet we plan to explore in retirement? Does inheritance tax even matter if future generations are going to spend all their money trying to fix everything we are destroying?

High-earning, child-free couples are paying €€€,€€€ per year in taxes to subsidise the children and grandchildren of people so separated from reality that they are not willing to accept the mildest of inconveniences to ensure breathable air, drinkable water, survivable summers, and a stable food supply. Maybe people should be able to opt out of that obligation too if they are tired of it.

Post of the year. I especially enjoyed this bit...

"people so separated from reality that they are not willing to accept the mildest of inconveniences to ensure breathable air, drinkable water, survivable summers, and a stable food supply"

Edit: In hindsight 'enjoyed' is not the right word.

 

[Leper]

I'm probably the most cynical "green" person on this forum. Have a look at most of the posts here. The supermarkets should do this, the airlines should do that, car manufacturers must be more vigilant, everybody else has to do something etc. The only control anybody here on green issues is what he/she can do. The supermarkets make their items as saleable as possible and even if this means adding some sort of in-built radiation to the products, they'll do it.

Being more green is like having teenagers around where you dance attendance on them no matter what. Don't answer every whim and soon they'll get the message and start to do something for themselves. It's the same being green, the greener you are the less greener everybody else becomes. Now to book my flights for all of 2024 . . .

 

[PGF2016]

I am seeing Eamonn Ryan and the Green Party every day saying something in the paper about taxing us more, punishing us more.

Can you at least give more details? What is he taxing and why? What behaviour is he punishing? Or should we say disincentivizing (possibly to generate revenue to be used on something worthwhile)?

 

[Kilkenny Lass]

Being more green is like having teenagers around where you dance attendance on them no matter what. Don't answer every whim and soon they'll get the message and start to do something for themselves. It's the same being green, the greener you are the less greener everybody else becomes.

Now there's a novel thought! I try to be as green as possible and can't think of one situation where being green has caused someone else to be less green - would be interested to know your experience of this?

 

[Marsupial]

I dont think that is a fair reflection, like anything there is a balance to be struck. He has been https://www.irishtimes.com/transport/2023/03/23/painfully-slow-planning-decisions-are-holding-ireland-back-says-ryan/ (vocal) that the planning system needs reform . Interconnection is a necessary part of a renewables based energy system. You can learn more about the importance of interconnection in the Govt's policy on the matter

I am well aware of the importance of interconnection. It allows us to avail of other countries' surplus electricity (irrespective of how it was generated!) when our wind farms aren't working, as well as enabling the government's (especially the Greens') desire to grandstand about Ireland being a nuclear energy free-country! It's a cynical strategy that fools most of the sheeple, right enough!

I'm also impressed to see that you're impressed by Ryan's "vocality" on the need to reform the Planning System - while preserving the right of every half-baked nutjob to lodge whatever objection takes their fancy. (My experts inform me that this can best be described as the Tadgh an dá thaobh approach, much beloved by Irish politicians!)

Of course Ryan was also "vocal" about Rossport and Shell to Sea - would you care to remind us when he did his 180 degree U-turn on that core principle?

 

[John Locke]

I am well aware of the importance of interconnection. It allows us to avail of other countries' surplus electricity (irrespective of how it was generated!) when our wind farms aren't working

Certainly important, but only half the story. At least as important is the ability to export power when the wind is blowing.
Wind power generation is regularly curtailed in Ireland due to the available wind power exceeding the ability of the grid to absorb it (demand less a minimum level of synchronous generation needed for stability) and export capacity.
The most recent figure I could find was 938GWh in 2021 (https://www.eirgridgroup.com/site-f...nstraint-and-Curtailment-Report-2021-V1.0.pdf)
That was 7.4% of the total wind energy generated, that was thrown away. It was over 12% in 2020, due to decreased demand during lockdowns and windier weather.
Increasing export capacity will allow this green energy to be used. This is only going to become more important as we add more wind generation to our grid.

sheeple

 

[ddraws]

I am well aware of the importance of interconnection. It allows us to avail of other countries' surplus electricity (irrespective of how it was generated!) when our wind farms aren't working, as well as enabling the government's (especially the Greens') desire to grandstand about Ireland being a nuclear energy free-country! It's a cynical strategy that fools most of the sheeple, right enough!

I'm also impressed to see that you're impressed by Ryan's "vocality" on the need to reform the Planning System - while preserving the right of every half-baked nutjob to lodge whatever objection takes their fancy. (My experts inform me that this can best be described as the Tadgh an dá thaobh approach, much beloved by Irish politicians!)

Of course Ryan was also "vocal" about Rossport and Shell to Sea - would you care to remind us when he did his 180 degree U-turn on that core principle?

Interconnection also allows us to export electricity when it is windy. I was not aware of this green policy of grandstanding re nuclear or trying to fool people. I did find this Eamonn Ryan quote from 2023 which clearly states we do source power from nuclear - “We are currently importing some nuclear power from our UK interconnector and we will connect to France, which has a lot of nuclear power, so it’s not as if we won’t connect with countries that have it."

Absolutely lets judge politicians on their actions not their words so. You mentioned planning issues - from this opinion on the planning and development bill it seems to be trying to address the issues you speak of.

"Among the key aspects of the Bill is the introduction of new restrictions on parties that are eligible to seek judicial reviews of decisions by An Bord Pleanála. Applicants must have “a sufficient interest in the matter”, and must be “directly or indirectly materially affected”.
There is also closer scrutiny of complaints surrounding “significant effects on the environment”, as the Bill demands that organisations mounting challenges on these grounds must be in existence for a minimum of a year."

Maybe that doesnt go far enough and you have a fundamental disagreement with peoples right to object? Whether the bill has the desired effect, time will tell.

 

[Marsupial]

"Among the key aspects of the Bill is the introduction of new restrictions on parties that are eligible to seek judicial reviews of decisions by An Bord Pleanála. Applicants must have “a sufficient interest in the matter”, and must be “directly or indirectly materially affected”.
There is also closer scrutiny of complaints surrounding “significant effects on the environment”, as the Bill demands that organisations mounting challenges on these grounds must be in existence for a minimum of a year."

Maybe that doesnt go far enough and you have a fundamental disagreement with peoples right to object? Whether the bill has the desired effect, time will tell.

Ever heard of the law of unintended consequences? Because my lawyer friends are already rubbing their hand together at the future earning potential that such pious, aspirational legislative clauses will almost inevitably lead to. And some of those cases could go all the way to the European Courts - so heaps of moolah for the lucky silks involved! Of course that's assuming that Michael D (or his successor) doesn't refer the legislation to the Supreme Court!

[Sheeple indeed!]

 

[Cervelo]

Now there's a novel thought! I try to be as green as possible and can't think of one situation where being green has caused someone else to be less green - would be interested to know your experience of this?

the greener you are the less greener everybody else becomes.

My understanding of what Leper wrote is not that everybody else has suddenly started to be less green but that you have become more greener and like a reformed smoker normally more pious about your life choices compared to others

Though I could be wrong, after all he is a Cork man and they speak a different language down there

 

[Leper]

Please refer to my earlier posts regarding recyclable refuse in Waterford city (RTE 6.00pm News) where many "green" bins were infested with remains of curry + egg rice take-aways. Also, I could bring you to housing estates in Cork where household waste surpasses the recyclables in the recyclable bin. It's easy to differentiate between recyclable and household waste and glass and unused cooked food. Try telling that to the aforementioned though. They don't care (I'm being kind here) and they don't give a whit about anybody else. Of course, they'll scoff pints and boast that they are green. What a shower of hypocrites! How do you solve the situation? I'm afraid, my objections to capital punishment wouldn't allow me to comment.

The only workable solution I can think of is for the Binmen not to collect such waste. I reckon the situation will have to get worse before it gets better. Hence, my referring to teenagers above.

 

[Marsupial]

What I fail to understand is why, although literally every National School in my area of rural West Cork proudly flies one or more Green Flags on the playground flagpole, the kids who go to these schools (or their parents or older siblings) persist in throwing sweet wrappers and soft drink cans out of the windows of the cars that bring them to and from school every day. (I don't blame them for the occasional paper coffee cup or cigarette pack that I also encounter on my daily walks). It's as if they believe that the need to be green applies only while they are inside the school grounds.

 

[joer]

On my every Sunday morning walk there are always fast food wrapping on the roads from the night before. As it takes less than a minute to drive from the M9 service station to this road it seems that the food is eaten in the car at the car park and because it is an inconvenience for them to put the wrappers in the bin they wait and throw them out the window on their way home for someone else to pick them up .... usually me .
So you can have all the green flags you like and all the teaching in school about the environment but the lazy so and so ,'s will as always do what they always do, whatever they like

 

[T McGibney]

On my every Sunday morning walk there are always fast food wrapping on the roads from the night before. As it takes less than a minute to drive from the M9 service station to this road it seems that the food is eaten in the car at the car park and because it is an inconvenience for them to put the wrappers in the bin they wait and throw them out the window on their way home for someone else to pick them up .... usually me .
So you can have all the green flags you like and all the teaching in school about the environment but the lazy so and so ,'s will as always do what they always do, whatever they like

On our rural by-road, really a glorified lane, we regularly find the remnants of an entire family's McDonalds drive-through meal. It's likely that it's the same family doing it all the time and they have children young enough to be eating Happy Meals.

The mind boggles.

 

[Horatio]

Is that true? A lot of the increase in the Westen population is from the aging population. It would ve interesting to see a reliable analysis breaking this down.

"
This topic page focuses on the number of births per woman in a population. The most commonly used metric is the Total Fertility Rate (TFR) – or often simply 'fertility rate' – which measures the average number of children per woman.1

The global average fertility rate is around 2.3 children per woman today. Over the last 50 years the global fertility rate has halved. And over the course of the modernization of societies the number of children per woman decreases very substantially. In the pre-modern era fertility rates of 4.5 to 7 children per woman were common. At that time the very high mortality at a young age kept population growth low. As health improves and the mortality in the population decreases we typically saw accelerated population growth. This rapid population growth then comes to an end as the fertility rate declines and approaches 2 children per woman.2
"

Fertility Rate

How does the number of children vary across the world and over time? What is driving the rapid global change?

ourworldindata.org