Thanks Brendan. Good point - does the overpayment feature also apply to fixed rate, do you know?
Key Post I have a Permanent TSB tracker – should I consider fixing?
- Thread starter Brendan Burgess
- Start date
Hi Brendan,
We have two PTSB mortgages on the one property after porting our tracker over from old house to new a number of years ago, then taking out a VR mortgage on the new property. We had never considered changing when ECB was at 0, but tracker less attractive now clearly. Appreciate advice on best options, plus the mechanics of transferring two mortgages. Would they be rolled into one then with new provider? Plus how does the overpayment credit work when finishing with PTSB?
Mortgage 1 (Tracker):
1) Existing tracker margin ECB +2.1%
2) Amount outstanding on your mortgage €254,000
3) Remaining term 18 years
4) Lender PTSB
5) Value of your home €700,000
6) Might you trade up or overpay your mortgage? Trade up - no, overpay - yes
7) Do you face any barriers to switching. Don’t think so, other than there is a second mortgage on property (see below)
8) What rates are you considering fixing at? Moving from PTSB, whatever most competitive in market
9) BER B2 (estimate)
Mortgage 2 (Fixed):
1) Fixed rate 3%
2) Fixed term remaining 7 years
3) Breakage fee: 0 (currently)
4) Amount outstanding on your mortgage €103,000
5) Remaining term 25 years
6) Lender PTSB
7) Overpayment €200 per month. Total overpayment to date = €5,600
Thanks
We have two PTSB mortgages on the one property after porting our tracker over from old house to new a number of years ago, then taking out a VR mortgage on the new property. We had never considered changing when ECB was at 0, but tracker less attractive now clearly. Appreciate advice on best options, plus the mechanics of transferring two mortgages. Would they be rolled into one then with new provider? Plus how does the overpayment credit work when finishing with PTSB?
Mortgage 1 (Tracker):
1) Existing tracker margin ECB +2.1%
2) Amount outstanding on your mortgage €254,000
3) Remaining term 18 years
4) Lender PTSB
5) Value of your home €700,000
6) Might you trade up or overpay your mortgage? Trade up - no, overpay - yes
7) Do you face any barriers to switching. Don’t think so, other than there is a second mortgage on property (see below)
8) What rates are you considering fixing at? Moving from PTSB, whatever most competitive in market
9) BER B2 (estimate)
Mortgage 2 (Fixed):
1) Fixed rate 3%
2) Fixed term remaining 7 years
3) Breakage fee: 0 (currently)
4) Amount outstanding on your mortgage €103,000
5) Remaining term 25 years
6) Lender PTSB
7) Overpayment €200 per month. Total overpayment to date = €5,600
Thanks
You are correct, Brendan - my apologies.
Like others we ported our tracker & have a split mortgage. Income reduced at present so would struggle to borrow what we owe if we switched.
Please provide the following information:
1) Tracker interest rate
It is really important to provide the information in the following format:
2) If you have an additional mortgage on the same property, what is the rate?
Fixed 3% 2 years remaining
3) Amount outstanding on your mortgage
385k -177k fixed 208k tracker
4) Remaining term:
tracker 21 years, rest 27 yrs
5) Lender: ptsb
6) Value of your home: 650k
7) Might you trade up or overpay your mortgage? No
8) Do you face any barriers to switching? Yes, reduced income since borrowing.
9) What rates are you considering fixing at?
7 yrs @3%
10) Does your house have a high BER rating which might qualify it for a lower rate?
need to get another assessment as was D1 but have done some work including insulating since.
Please provide the following information:
1) Tracker interest rate
It is really important to provide the information in the following format:
- ECB rate: 1.25% (This is the rate set by the ECB – currently 0.5% but it will rise to 1.25% later in September 2022)
- Margin: 2.1% (This is set in your mortgage contract)
- Total rate: 3.35%
2) If you have an additional mortgage on the same property, what is the rate?
Fixed 3% 2 years remaining
3) Amount outstanding on your mortgage
385k -177k fixed 208k tracker
4) Remaining term:
tracker 21 years, rest 27 yrs
5) Lender: ptsb
6) Value of your home: 650k
7) Might you trade up or overpay your mortgage? No
8) Do you face any barriers to switching? Yes, reduced income since borrowing.
9) What rates are you considering fixing at?
7 yrs @3%
10) Does your house have a high BER rating which might qualify it for a lower rate?
need to get another assessment as was D1 but have done some work including insulating since.
Brendan Burgess
Founder
- Messages
- 52,117
Unfortunately you are a prisoner of ptsb's predatory mortgage rates.
The best you can do is fix for 7 years. It gives you some protection. (The AIB rate for 7 years is the same, but an AIB customer could fix for 5 years at 2.35%.)
Also check if there is a break fee on the bit you have already fixed. There probably won't be or if it's small, fix the whole lot at 3% for 7 years.
Brendan
The best you can do is fix for 7 years. It gives you some protection. (The AIB rate for 7 years is the same, but an AIB customer could fix for 5 years at 2.35%.)
Also check if there is a break fee on the bit you have already fixed. There probably won't be or if it's small, fix the whole lot at 3% for 7 years.
Brendan
Brendan Burgess
Founder
- Messages
- 52,117
Sorry Lalo. I missed this at the time. You have a 50% LTV mortgage.
You must switch from permanent tsb.
Your tracker is worth nothing with a margin of 2.1%
The best long term value is either Avant or AIB. Apply to both and make the decision when you are ready to draw down.
Haven is another option, but the delays in processing mean that the rates may well have gone up by the time you are ready to switch.
Brendan
Thanks Brendan, no break fee for fixed portion! Will fix it all now & hopefully be in a better position to shop around in 7 yrs
No worries, thanks Brendan, much appreciated.
Finance Ireland is another option if you want to fix for the long term. See this thread for tables of rates for all good-value lenders.
Will do, thanks Paul.
Hi
Looking for advice on switching PTSB tracker, in particular around staying with PTSB vs switching to AIB. Details below.
1) Existing tracker margin ECB + 2.25% (so pretty useless - already at 3.5% with recent hikes)
2) Amount outstanding on your mortgage €326,000
3) Remaining term 24 years
4) Lender PTSB
5) Value of your home €500-550k
6) Might you trade up or overpay your mortgage? No
7) Do you face any barriers to switching. No
8) What rates are you considering fixing at? PTSB have offered 3 years at 2.95%, 5 years 3% or 7 years 3%
Seems extremely easy to change to fixed rate with PTSB - we just tick a box on a letter and send back to them. We have 30 days from their letter to do this, but already down to about 17 days on this (they will guarantee the 3% rate until then).
I think we qualify for AIB 2.2% 4 year rate (high value mortgage). Obviously that would save us a significant amount over 4 years, however I am worried their fixed rates will rise before we come to draw down new mortgage and the whole switching process will have been useless.
Do we have any idea when banks will increase fixed rates? Is it likely in next 6-8 weeks?
Therefore tempted to stick with PTSB and fix at 3% for 7 years.
Any advice welcome!
Looking for advice on switching PTSB tracker, in particular around staying with PTSB vs switching to AIB. Details below.
1) Existing tracker margin ECB + 2.25% (so pretty useless - already at 3.5% with recent hikes)
2) Amount outstanding on your mortgage €326,000
3) Remaining term 24 years
4) Lender PTSB
5) Value of your home €500-550k
6) Might you trade up or overpay your mortgage? No
7) Do you face any barriers to switching. No
8) What rates are you considering fixing at? PTSB have offered 3 years at 2.95%, 5 years 3% or 7 years 3%
Seems extremely easy to change to fixed rate with PTSB - we just tick a box on a letter and send back to them. We have 30 days from their letter to do this, but already down to about 17 days on this (they will guarantee the 3% rate until then).
I think we qualify for AIB 2.2% 4 year rate (high value mortgage). Obviously that would save us a significant amount over 4 years, however I am worried their fixed rates will rise before we come to draw down new mortgage and the whole switching process will have been useless.
Do we have any idea when banks will increase fixed rates? Is it likely in next 6-8 weeks?
Therefore tempted to stick with PTSB and fix at 3% for 7 years.
Any advice welcome!
Brendan Burgess
Founder
- Messages
- 52,117
You have identified the dilemma directly and no one knows the answer.
By the time you switch to AIB rates may well have gone up.
But you will face the same issue with ptsb at the end of the fixed rate period if you fix with them. So get out of ptsb's clutches now.
Brendan
Brendan I really need advice as I want to approach PTSB and ask for a fixed rate mortgage over 8 years. I have money in the bank but want to keep it for investments. Thoughts
1) Existing tracker margin ECB + 0.9
2) Amount outstanding on your mortgage €1,000,000
3) Remaining term 8 years
4) Lender PTSB
5) Value of your home €2,000,000
6) Might you trade up or overpay your mortgage? No
7) Do you face any barriers to switching. No
8) What rates are you considering fixing at? - I haven’t asked yet.
1) Existing tracker margin ECB + 0.9
2) Amount outstanding on your mortgage €1,000,000
3) Remaining term 8 years
4) Lender PTSB
5) Value of your home €2,000,000
6) Might you trade up or overpay your mortgage? No
7) Do you face any barriers to switching. No
8) What rates are you considering fixing at? - I haven’t asked yet.
Brendan Burgess
Founder
- Messages
- 52,117
@Maximum
Assuming an ECB rate of 2%, you will be borrowing money at 3% to invest.
This is not a good idea. You will be getting an uncertain return which, if positive, will be subject to tax.
Alternatively, you can invest at a guaranteed, tax-free and risk-free rate of 3%.
So you should pay your savings against your mortgage.
As an existing customer of ptsb your subject to their predatory lending rates for existing customers.
As an existing customer, the longest you can fix for is 5 years at 3%. Edit: Correction, you can fix for 7 years at 3%
By comparison, if you were an new customer you could fix for 5 years at 2.55% and get 2% cash back as well.
You should look at switching to AIB for 5 years at 2.35% which would save you €6,500 a year.
If rates go up before you have drawn down the money, then just stick with the tracker.
If you don't want to switch, then you could consider fixing for 5 years at 3%. If ECB rates rise above 2.1%, you would win by fixing.
But for the last three years you will lose out as you will have lost your tracker. But the balance will be down to €400k after 5 years and €300k the following year, so while you will be paying a higher rate, it will be on a lower balance.
Brendan
Assuming an ECB rate of 2%, you will be borrowing money at 3% to invest.
This is not a good idea. You will be getting an uncertain return which, if positive, will be subject to tax.
Alternatively, you can invest at a guaranteed, tax-free and risk-free rate of 3%.
So you should pay your savings against your mortgage.
As an existing customer of ptsb your subject to their predatory lending rates for existing customers.
As an existing customer, the longest you can fix for is 5 years at 3%. Edit: Correction, you can fix for 7 years at 3%
By comparison, if you were an new customer you could fix for 5 years at 2.55% and get 2% cash back as well.
You should look at switching to AIB for 5 years at 2.35% which would save you €6,500 a year.
If rates go up before you have drawn down the money, then just stick with the tracker.
If you don't want to switch, then you could consider fixing for 5 years at 3%. If ECB rates rise above 2.1%, you would win by fixing.
But for the last three years you will lose out as you will have lost your tracker. But the balance will be down to €400k after 5 years and €300k the following year, so while you will be paying a higher rate, it will be on a lower balance.
Brendan
Last edited:
Brendan Burgess
Founder
- Messages
- 52,117
You can find the ptsb rates here - scroll down past new business and High Value Mortgages to Existing Home Loan Customers.
Mortgage Interest Rates | permanent tsb
No matter where you are on the property ladder we have a mortgage rate that will suit you. View our up to date mortgage interest rates.
www.permanenttsb.ie
It might be worth telling them that you are switching and asking for the new customer rate. Not sure if they are negotiable for high value mortgages. If they gave you the high value rate of 2.55% which they offer to new customers, that might be worth going for.
Do you mean that your mortgage will be paid off in 8 years' time?
You can actually fix for seven years at 3%. That could be worth considering, since your balance will be much lower then, and you will only have one year left on your mortgage (assuming you really do mean that you will clear it in 8 years).
Brendan Burgess
Founder
- Messages
- 52,117
Hi Paul
Thanks for the correction.
And agree. If you are fixing, fix for the 7 years.
Brendan
Hi Brendan,
Apologies for the delay replying, I was awaiting my options letter from PTSB and my BER.
The best rate they are offering me is a green 5 year fixed rate of 2.8%
I will post my original answers below incase you cant see them in this reply;
1. ECB + 0.8%
2. €135k outstanding
3. 17 years remaining
4. Lender: PTSB
5. Value: €250k
6. I intend to sell the property in c. 4-5 years
7. Yes, I only have 1 years self employed accounts so need to remain with PTSB
8. 2.8% green rate with PTSB
Brendan Burgess
Founder
- Messages
- 52,117
@Nessa1985
permanent tsb has predatory rates for existing customers. You will be subject to them if you fix your rate for 5 years.
A 0.8% margin is not bad and given that you have 17 years remaining on your mortgage, you should stay on the tracker.
When ECB rates exceed 2% you will suffer a small loss, but I think it's a premium worth paying to retain the 0.8% margin.
Brendan
permanent tsb has predatory rates for existing customers. You will be subject to them if you fix your rate for 5 years.
A 0.8% margin is not bad and given that you have 17 years remaining on your mortgage, you should stay on the tracker.
When ECB rates exceed 2% you will suffer a small loss, but I think it's a premium worth paying to retain the 0.8% margin.
Brendan