Hi! I have discovered that the problem with my damp kitchen is due to high water table - it is causing rising damp and effloresence on terracotta tiles. The remainder of the damp is apparently cuased by my neighbour's shower which is against my kitchen wall. My neighbour has his house (which is rented out) for sale, and my cousin, an engineer and I, managed to get a look at it today - very bad leak, wet floor etc. in their downstairs shower area). The builder and damp proof specialist who looked at my house later this evening said the whole job would cost around E100k, that is to dig drain around house, dig up tiles, take out kitchen units and put membrane on floor and refix kitchen and tiling. This is without attending to the damp coming from my neighbours house. My neighbour has always been difficult and the lack of repair to his own house has previously caused damage to mine. I fixed the damage and paid for it myself because my neighbour is just so difficult. I don't know what to do. I was intending to sell the house in February, but the damp is really bad now. Is this an excessive quote from builder and damp proof specialist for job. Can anyone know what would the legal remedy be aginst my neighbour, and how long would it take. The 100k doesn't factor in the cost of going to court. Any advice really appreciated.
high water table and damp from neighbour
- Thread starter elainem
- Start date
No, extopia, 100k was mentioned - and that didn't include a contingency fund. However, the house is in D4, which always seems to bring about the most expensive quotes. Do you have any idea of what this work should cost, or what to do about it - I originally intended to sell the house without doing the work - but I don't think I can get away with that now. Thanks for your reply.
Unless you have a very, very large kitchen, with very expensive cabinets and fittings (and they're including a NEW kitchen in the price), it sounds like they're taking you for a ride, D4 or no D4.
I'd talk to a couple of other contractors. You don't need a damp specialist for this kind of work.
I couldn't say what it should cost without knowing more about your house, but I would think you could get this done for far, far less.
It might be an idea to get a friend or relative who knows a bit about building to do the talking on your behalf if you're not confident about talking the talk with these jokers.
I'd talk to a couple of other contractors. You don't need a damp specialist for this kind of work.
I couldn't say what it should cost without knowing more about your house, but I would think you could get this done for far, far less.
It might be an idea to get a friend or relative who knows a bit about building to do the talking on your behalf if you're not confident about talking the talk with these jokers.
liteweight
Registered User
- Messages
- 1,678
100k seems very steep to me!
Why do they have to dig drain around the house? Is this to lower the ground around the perimeter? We had this done when we moved into our house some years ago but I've been told that it's no longer considered necessary as other methods of damp proofing are available. The smallest part of the job was lifting the tiles, they're only laid on dirt or sand....hard to get a start but once he had one lifted, the guy had the rest lifted in an hour or so. Having said that, we had a dry rot problem and some of the builders were just asking for 'funny money'. I told one of them that I'd no intention of funding his retirement!! Having said that, I know labour is very expensive these days and hard to tie anyone down to a job.
Don't know what you can do about your neighbour but whatever it is, I imagine it'll be a long, drawn out process!! I feel for you....I really do.
Why do they have to dig drain around the house? Is this to lower the ground around the perimeter? We had this done when we moved into our house some years ago but I've been told that it's no longer considered necessary as other methods of damp proofing are available. The smallest part of the job was lifting the tiles, they're only laid on dirt or sand....hard to get a start but once he had one lifted, the guy had the rest lifted in an hour or so. Having said that, we had a dry rot problem and some of the builders were just asking for 'funny money'. I told one of them that I'd no intention of funding his retirement!! Having said that, I know labour is very expensive these days and hard to tie anyone down to a job.Don't know what you can do about your neighbour but whatever it is, I imagine it'll be a long, drawn out process!! I feel for you....I really do.
If I was planning to sell a house I certainly would not do this kind of work, much of which may well be undone by the new owner.
The French drain around the house is actually a good idea for damp sites, it effectively sits the house on a dry "island" and is fairly standard practice when renovating older properties with non-existent or failed damp proof courses. But it's a day's work with a digger, which in some rural areas costs about €30 per hour. You then place about 100mm of pea grit in the trench, put in a land drain, and top off with larger stones.
Digging up and replacing the subfloor and tiles is tedious but not very exacting.
The gas thing is that none of these measures will solve the problem with the leaking shower next door, as the damp could penetrate the wall, therefore bypassing the new damp proof membrane and getting down into the floor that way (just because they call it rising damp doesn't mean it always travels upwards.)
The French drain around the house is actually a good idea for damp sites, it effectively sits the house on a dry "island" and is fairly standard practice when renovating older properties with non-existent or failed damp proof courses. But it's a day's work with a digger, which in some rural areas costs about €30 per hour. You then place about 100mm of pea grit in the trench, put in a land drain, and top off with larger stones.
Digging up and replacing the subfloor and tiles is tedious but not very exacting.
The gas thing is that none of these measures will solve the problem with the leaking shower next door, as the damp could penetrate the wall, therefore bypassing the new damp proof membrane and getting down into the floor that way (just because they call it rising damp doesn't mean it always travels upwards.)
Thalnks for the info. extopia. The french drain must be what my engineer cousin was talking about.
I don't really want to do any of this work, as I am on my own with 2 young children, and so it is extra stress I don't need. However, I'm afraid the house won't sell if I don't do it - and people viewing it my see that the prolem is arising from my neighbour's house - which would put buyer's off.
With regard to the damp from my neighbour's house - is it possible that the damp from his shower on one side of the room could be causing peeling paint on the other side of the room and also effloresence of the tiles in the middle of the floor - I really don't know what to believe - as when it comes to period houses there seems to be so many conflicting opinions.
I don't really want to do any of this work, as I am on my own with 2 young children, and so it is extra stress I don't need. However, I'm afraid the house won't sell if I don't do it - and people viewing it my see that the prolem is arising from my neighbour's house - which would put buyer's off.
With regard to the damp from my neighbour's house - is it possible that the damp from his shower on one side of the room could be causing peeling paint on the other side of the room and also effloresence of the tiles in the middle of the floor - I really don't know what to believe - as when it comes to period houses there seems to be so many conflicting opinions.
Just curious - when did you buy this house and did you get a detailed structural survey done at the time? If you did and they missed this perhaps you have some comeback? Are you absolutely sure about how much the problems are attributable to your neighbour's shower etc. and how much to the high water table? I all seems a bit confused to me from reading the above.
No, it's unlikely your neighbour's shower is causing this amount of trouble. It's likely the result of having no DPC, as your damp specialist has said.
If your house is in a good location and priced correctly it shouldn't be a problem. You certainly won't get the cost of the renovation back, and the new owner may well want to do a total renovation anyway - or at least rebuild the kitchen and bathrooms.
What does your local estate agent say?
If your house is in a good location and priced correctly it shouldn't be a problem. You certainly won't get the cost of the renovation back, and the new owner may well want to do a total renovation anyway - or at least rebuild the kitchen and bathrooms.
What does your local estate agent say?
In my opinion, structual surveys are not as useful as they should be. There's rarely any comeback because the standard wording covers the surveyor's posterior for "invisible" problems, "work covered up" etc.
You don't need a high water table to get rising damp, by the way. If there's no DPC, you will have dampness, period. It's just more obvious when the water table is higher.
liteweight
Registered User
- Messages
- 1,678
It's a difficult one really. I know from previous posts that elainem expects to sell for 1.8m. As I know the location, I think she'll get more. With this calibre of house, vendors will always get a surveyor in and the damp problem (especially if potential purchaser is given a ball park figure of 100k for kitchen alone) might bring down the value of the property. On the other hand, the work, stress and the fact that she lives in the midlands might make it worth taking the hit. A surveyor might not realise that some of the damp is coming from next door as, presumably he won't have access.
extopia said:
It's called a French drain....didn't know that. The house is very close to the centre of the city so a digger on Leeson St..........don't know what the multiplier might be. I don't see how a dry island could be effective if the house is terraced, or semi detached...it's not possible to create a dry island.
When we had ours done, they dug up the front garden and dropped the level to below the original damp proof course. The plaster was stripped from the walls inside up to a height of five feet. The walls were then injected with some form of damp proofer. Plaster was replaced, but the walls in my red brick porch still have a 'tide mark' from this process. So it looks as if it's damp but it's not!!
Neighbours over the years have had the damp proofing process carried out, but it has become much simpler. They come and inject the walls on the outside. Takes a little longer to dry out and the red bricks outside have little plug holes in them but oh the convenience and so much cheaper!! I really thing elainem should get a lot more quotes for this work.
The gas thing is that none of these measures will solve the problem with the leaking shower next door, as the damp could penetrate the wall, therefore bypassing the new damp proof membrane and getting down into the floor that way (just because they call it rising damp doesn't mean it always travels upwards.)
Exactly, with a bit of luck, next door will be sold and the new neighbours will sort it all out.
Last edited:
Thanks for your reply, Liteweight. My preference would be to take the hit on the property and avoid the stress - my children's welfare and my own peace of mind are more important. However, I don't know how to cover up the problem from next door. I don't know if next door will be sold. It is in absolutely dreadful condition. It went to auction last Thursday and failed to attract even one bidder at 1.6 million - alas, the softening of the market - or maybe even the crash appears to be upon us! If anyone has any suggestions on how to disguise the probem - I'm trying to be as ethical as possible here!! - I would be really grateful. Currently, my lovely terracotta tiles along the party wall are going mouldy. I don't want to engage in a legal fight with my neighbour - who is also a solicitor - unless absolutely necessary.
I thought that there was a certain amount of comeback for clients if the surveyor did not identify certain (obvious?) problems? I guess the divil is in the detail of the contract involved?
The value of the house is irrelevant. 100k is still a ridiculous quote, in my opinion. I wouldn't tell the builder that you're going to sell the house on, by the way - it might be too tempting for the builder to do a cover-up job knowing there'll be no comeback.
If it's a terraced or semi-D house, yeah, the French drain will not work. Dropping the ground level to below the DPC (essential, did this myself in my own house) is even simpler - and cheaper. We live in a terraced house and did it with shovels in a few hours.
No bids at 1.6m for a damp house! What's the world coming to?
If it's a terraced or semi-D house, yeah, the French drain will not work. Dropping the ground level to below the DPC (essential, did this myself in my own house) is even simpler - and cheaper. We live in a terraced house and did it with shovels in a few hours.
No bids at 1.6m for a damp house! What's the world coming to?
Exactly - and until surveyors are forced to do a proper job, with a proper contract that covers both sides - structural surveys will continue to be of less value than they should be, in my opinion.
liteweight
Registered User
- Messages
- 1,678
I suppose you could damp proof the floor and dry line the walls.
Thanks for your replies, liteweight and extopia. As you can see I'm still awake and fretting about it at this ungodly hour! Litweight, is it possible to just dryline the wall and put a waterproof membrane on the floor as you suggested? Half of the party wall was already drylined when my mother renovated the house in 1989. This half of the wall has no damp whatsoever. If I could get away with drylining it, and waterproofing the floor, then I would. As I said I don't want to engage with this guy - he is oabnoxious anyway, and he's also a legal eagle.
liteweight
Registered User
- Messages
- 1,678
Oh I'd say it has damp, you just can't see it because of the dry lining!! I'm not a builder, although owning an old house, I sometimes feel like one!! Of course it's possible to dry line the walls. The damp shouldn't come through as long as the wall board is put on laths. These would have to be protected by some sort of waterproof membrane. As other posters have said, whoever buys the place will probably gut it...the kitchen at least. With a bit of luck some of the building experts will pick up on your post and give you a better answer with regard to your options.