help required re loan mess

R

redroses

Registered User
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7
hi there,
this is my first post, I have joined to ask this query as I have searched high and low on the net and cant find any similar situation or an answer to my query.

In June 2009 I consolidated two loans and a credit card as my work had been hit hard and I was struggling financially so one repayment made more sense. This was a 5 year loan repayaing 202 per month. During the course of the loan I took a three month payment break, agreed with the bank so the loan should have finished in Oct this year. However I phoned the bank to check the loan balance in September this year and was told that there was still 1200 oweing. Cue a lot of phone calls later and it transpires that five repayments had been missed at the very start of the loan, even though this money had been lodged and I have proof that the money was lodged, and can also see it been taken out of my account.

However my big issue is that in may 2010 the man in the bank I always dealt with restructured the loan in to a new personal loan of 9300 over 53 payments at 202 per month. Ive requested a copy of the loan agreement and I can only be provided with the unsigned bank copy. I can prove I was work all that day(I got married the next week and that was my last day in work) I got a phone call today and they've said they've one more place to look for the signed copy and will call me back tomorrow to advise if they find it. I told them they definitely wont as I didn't sign it.

What is the position when a loan is restructured and I haven't signed for it?
I also have issue with the fact I was paying in money for five months, actually phoned to make sure all payments were met and was advised they were.

opinions appreciated.
 
Redroses;
From what you say your understanding/documentation say that the consolidated loan should finish in Oct 2014.

This comes down to a factual proven paper trail.

It is up to the Bank to now provide you with all and any properly signed documentation in relation to said Consolidation.

It might well be Bank missed setting up loan properly etc.
However without documentation you cannot be sure.

One bit of clear advice , from now on make all requests in writing, copy everything, do not phone them, try not to answer their calls except to say please write to you.

The paper trail will solve it.
Come back to AAM on it if need be.
 
Thanks Gerry, I have my original loan agreement which was 5 years, first repayment starting in july 2009, added on three months for payment break. they have furnished statements to me which also show money being lodged to pay loan but no trail as to where it went.

I've made a written complaint, had letter's in return, after each phone call, asked for a letter, which has been provided. its the restructure and missed payments that they cant prove that are mind boogling. I've also requested a copy of my credit report from icb, im not listed on that.
 
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This should be straightforward enough.

You took out a loan in June 2009.

You made 5 payments. They are not showing up now in 2014.

1) Why did you not point this out when you got the statement for 2009
2) You rescheduled in 2010? You must have got a statement at that stage. Why did you not point it out then?

On the other hand
3) if you missed 5 payments, why did they not write to you looking for them?
4)" I have proof that the money was lodged, and can also see it been taken out of my account."
Then send it to them.

The paperwork for the rescheduling is not really that important.

Brendan
 
1.If the 5 payments have gone (missing) in Bank and customer has proof they went in , it is not up to customer to chase. Can Bank not check?
2. Possibly she did get statements. A lot of people do not check ,I know seems odd but it is not atall unusual.

On the other hand.
1.Agreed if she missed 5 payments surely Bank should have queried?
2. Surely Bank can see money in /money out?
By all means send the proof.

Agreed reschedule docs should not be too important but then again would Bank not have them ?
 
also show money being lodged to pay loan but no trail as to where it went
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Not quite sure what this means!! If the lodgements were shown on the loan statement they should also be deducted from the balance due!
 
but no trail as to where it went.
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Wouldn't explain this commentary. Funds don't disappear from an account. I direct debit payment to the loan account would be reflected on the statement. Any other withdrawls from the account would also be listed on the statement!!!
 
Brendan Burgess said:
This should be straightforward enough.

You took out a loan in June 2009.

You made 5 payments. They are not showing up now in 2014.

1) Why did you not point this out when you got the statement for 2009
2) You rescheduled in 2010? You must have got a statement at that stage. Why did you not point it out then?

On the other hand
3) if you missed 5 payments, why did they not write to you looking for them?
4)" I have proof that the money was lodged, and can also see it been taken out of my account."
Then send it to them.

The paperwork for the rescheduling is not really that important.

Brendan
Click to expand...

I did not reschedule the loan, the bank did and this was done unknown to me hence why they can not find the copy of the signed loan declaration from me
1.because I did not sign it and
2. because I had no knowledge it was being restructured

I had no idea the payments were being missed. I said in my first post I checked with staff meber and made phone calls to see the money was lodged on time to hit the loan.

I have disputed all of this with the bank re payments being missed and not being contacted and lodging the money honestly and in good faith.. yes the onus is probabaly on me to check the statement of loan account. that statement by the way is sent once a year on this account. when the loan was restructured no arrears showed as all that was apparently taken in to account.

The man who did all this is "no longer with the bank" which is quite unhelpful.

and yes in this case..there is quite simply no trail as to where the money has gone. Its not my problem the bank have stuffed up but ive been left with a problem here.

I've furnished the bank with my proof that money was lodged. they should be able to see this from statements anyways.

Why is the paper work for the restructure nor very important? I find that baffling? a loan was sanctioned in my name and drawn down by a bank without my knowledge...that not verging on fraud?
 
Brendan says that "this should be straight forward enough".

Banks don't often loose client records, but when they do nothing is straight forward. Genuine confusion arising from missing documentation is compounded by created confusion caused by blame shifting etc.

I agree that the restructure documentation is basically not that important. You probably did not loose anything as a result of this restructure. However I also agree with you that it is verging on fraud. If my neighbour came into my house and rearranged the furniture I would be very angry even if I was no worse off as a result.

You should certainly complain to the bank that your account was restructured without your authority or even knowledge. If they cannot produce documentation to show your signature they will have to apologise and compensate you. This is a major issue for the bank. If it appears that they are making adjustments to accounts without customer consent I think the Central Bank would take a very dim view. It calls into question their entire custodial arrangements. However from your point of view it really is not that important.

As regards missing 5 payments you have furnished the bank with proof the money was lodged. Well wait for the banks response.

The ball is in the banks court. You don't have to do anything. You certainly don't have to make any more payments until the bank clears up the matter of the missing 5 payments. Keep chasing them to ask when you will get a response to your complaint and threaten to take the complaint to the FSO. However don't actually do that. Once you fire that shot you are weaponless, the threat is more effective that the reality.

The bank is probably putting on an official face to you, but if things are as you say, then they may well be panicking.

Let us know how it goes.
 
The 5 missing payments are a problem, however the restructure perhaps has something to do with the 3 month payment break and maybe the loan had to be re set up to allow for the missing months. If this loan was set up as a fixed term fixed rate then the computer system simply may not have been set up to allow a payment break and the loan may have had to be closed and opened again to facilitate it. Just a thought.

If that was the case then fraud is a bit strong for a description, maybe more of a case of computer says no to payment break on fixed loan.
 
You appear to have a genuine grevience with the Bank. The only way of addressing this is by directly communicating with the Bank in writing, clearly stating the issues and where you feel they have erred. The bank are obliged to address these issues if they want their money back from you. Keep a proper paper trail of all correspondence and follow-up on delayed responses.
 
Monbretia said:
The 5 missing payments are a problem, however the restructure perhaps has something to do with the 3 month payment break and maybe the loan had to be re set up to allow for the missing months. If this loan was set up as a fixed term fixed rate then the computer system simply may not have been set up to allow a payment break and the loan may have had to be closed and opened again to facilitate it. Just a thought.
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That's possible but it would still have to be done with the customer's consent, wouldn't it? And given that it was in his interest (as he wanted to take the payment break) then I'm sure he would have had no problem in going in to the back again to sign a new agreement.
 
Don't know, maybe there is something signed on file from the OP asking/consenting to the payment break which could be considered agreement. Unlikely you could just ring up bank and say hey I want a break for 3 months from payments and they say grand without there being something confirmed in writing.
 
Loans are all subject to a contract between client and the bank. Any restructure of the t&c's require the written agreement of both parties. This whole posting reflects a very strange approach from a bank and displays (if correct) a breach of both internal rules and client contract. A bank is obliged to address this but only when formally made aware of such a breach by the client. The OP has made a number of complaints on how his loans were dealt with in his posts but there is no indication from the posts that he has made the bank formally aware in writing of the issues. To be fair to the bank, they cannot resopond to a problem unless they are made aware vof the full details.
 
I requested a payment break in 2012 for three months which was given no problem.
The restructured loan, was in the banks in words " a new personal loan that was set up to take in to account the arrears that had accumulated"
arrears I knew nothing about.
I would have had to sign for this loan to be drawn down, but they can only furnish an unsigned copy. I do not go to the bank on the day they say the loan was signed in 2010. I previously said it was my last day in work before I got married, I clocked in for the full day and can prove it and have shown them this.
I've looked at the central banks code of conduct re record keeping and lending and arrears. a customer must be informed in writing within three days when arrears accumulate on a loan for more than 31 calendar days...I was not.
 
44brendan said:
Loans are all subject to a contract between client and the bank. Any restructure of the t&c's require the written agreement of both parties. This whole posting reflects a very strange approach from a bank and displays (if correct) a breach of both internal rules and client contract. A bank is obliged to address this but only when formally made aware of such a breach by the client. The OP has made a number of complaints on how his loans were dealt with in his posts but there is no indication from the posts that he has made the bank formally aware in writing of the issues. To be fair to the bank, they cannot resopond to a problem unless they are made aware vof the full details.
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I put a complaint in writing when I was first made aware of missing payments to find out exactly what was going on, this was how I first became aware of the restructure.
 
I put a complaint in writing when I was first made aware of missing payments to find out exactly what was going on, this was how I first became aware of the restructure
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I'm assuming that you have not had a formal response to the claim or if so the response did not address the key issues raised by you. It's up to you to follow up on the complaint until it is resolved. If not resolved to your satisfaction then you can appeal to the ombudsman provided the bank are aware that your complaint has not been properly addressed.
 
Thanks 44Brendan, the formal response from the bank was telling me the I had restructured the loan hence why it would run longer and that there was arrears,they then said they would investigate further and I would hear their final response within 5 days, that was three weeks ago and ive heard zilch since only got a phone call from the lady dealing with it all who is moving depts. on Monday, helpful.
I then requested the paperwork, statements etc after their formal reponse. They provided me with a loan statement, showing how much had been paid, my feeder and personal account statements showing the money being lodged and also withdrawn. What bothers me is the code or ref beside the withdrawl is sbt bank teller or sbt bank transfer for the withdrawls which is the banks internal transaction ref for a teller doing an internal transaction.They can not tell where this money went as they say there is no trace whatsoever.
They also can not find the signed loan restructure- weve established I didn't sign it so its not going to be found.

My original post was to see if anyone had any advice for me as this is not normal banking practise. They have failed me at every turn, gone in to my bank account and rstructured things without my authorisation and money I lodged is no where to be seen.Funds don't go missing or untraceable but in my case they have just vanished. ive also paid 5 missed payment charges of 12.70. I consolidated so I wouldn't end up in a mess but the bank put me in a mess anyways
 
redroses said:
I've furnished the bank with my proof that money was lodged. they should be able to see this from statements anyways.
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Yes, but do you have your bank account and loan statements for the period? And if so, can you not see the ins and outs our account statement?

Sorry only just saw your last post....
 
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