Has any politician criticised the people who stole money from Bank of Ireland?

Brendan Burgess

Brendan Burgess

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I have seen a few public comments.

The Minister for Finance wants a full report on the issue from the Central Bank. But made no criticism of the people who stole the money.

People Before Profit and the ICCL criticised the Gardai for attending at the ATMs.

But has anyone in authority criticised the thieves publicly?

Brendan
 
I have seen none yet Brendan.

Sinn Fein parliamentary assistant and election candidate Aoife Masterson posted this disgraceful rubbish yesterday in a series of tweets.

Many BOI customers yesterday took out cash in the good faith belief they had this money.
Some will now face high cost unauthorised overdraft fees & upcoming bills going unpaid until it is cleared.
BOI must positively engage with customers to avoid undue hardship & distress.

If you are in the Tullamore area and need advice or assistance engaging with the bank please reach out and I will be happy to talk this through with you and help.

Many don’t work for a fixed weekly/monthly wage & have varying amounts lodged on an ad hoc basis - Contractors,legal professionals,architects & others.
Its entirely reasonable to rely on info provided, esp in rural communities where in person banking services have been withdrawn.

Many, especially in rural communities, still deal in cash & take out sums of money to cover them for a set period of time. These are ordinary people relying on the info available to withdraw moderate sums of money to cover day to day expenses who now find themselves in debt.

There is nothing political or opportunistic in offering assistance to those who acted in good faith and because of a banks mistake will now struggle to meet their bills and engage with the banks.
This is basic assistance I offered long before I became involved in politics.

The sad reality is that while many will be able to overcome this, it is the most marginalised and vulnerable in society who have the most fluctuating financial situations, poorest financial literacy and management, and who will struggle to engage with the banks to get out of debt
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It's long past time that we had enforcement of proper standards of behaviour for politicians and their staff.
 
T McGibney said:
I have seen none yet Brendan.

Sinn Fein parliamentary assistant and election candidate Aoife Masterson posted this disgraceful rubbish yesterday in a series of tweets.



It's long past time that we had enforcement of proper standards of behaviour for politicians and their staff.
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Would like to say its a shocking indictment of said parties inability to field candidates of anything other than the crank and crackpot variety, but frankly, was not entirely surprised. People are more interested in using the whole thing as a tool to bash the Gardai with than asking why there is such a hunger for what is basically looting.

I agree with her point that people on very low incomes could end up very negatively on this lives, but so does crashing a car while under the influence or stealing a handbag. Yes its tough on them, but moral hazard precludes us from dismissing all such cases on the grounds that the perpetrator was "poor."
 
It's a very poor statement. The type of people she refers to (low /fluctuating income earners) should all know that you cannot or don't spend (or withdraw) money you do not have.
 
T McGibney said:
It's long past time that we had enforcement of proper standards of behaviour for politicians and their staff.
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But we're talking about Sinn Féin here, hence the requirement for high standards simply doesn't exist. Indeed possession of such standards would probably render a prospective election candidate ineligible for running under the SF banner!

Mind you, repulsive as that SF muppet's comments are, I found the bilge uttered by the ICCL's Bill Herrick on Morning Ireland yesterday even more contemptible. But he has form.
 
Luternau said:
It's a very poor statement. The type of people she refers to (low /fluctuating income earners) should all know that you cannot or don't spend (or withdraw) money you do not have.
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Correct, but cue 2 weeks from now, when same people are howling that BOI has "taken" their social welfare because it was lodged into an account thats now got a balance of minus 1000, the commentary will shift to favour the ATM looters.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
But has anyone in authority criticised the thieves publicly?
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These people took advantage of a systems failure, some unwittingly.

As I understand it they now have unauthorised overdrafts and will have to get their balance back positive again.

Not a judge in the land would allow a trial for theft, and the term “thief” in this context is plain wrong.
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
These people took advantage of a systems failure, some unwittingly.

As I understand it they now have unauthorised overdrafts and will have to get their balance back positive again.

Not a judge in the land would allow a trial for theft, and the term “thief” in this context is plain wrong.
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Ah now, its a form of looting. Its not much different from a scenario where people race into large stores and start walking out with large value items under their arms because there's some kind of emergency happening.
 
lff12 said:
what is basically looting.
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This is wholly different to masked looters or thieves.

Customers identified themselves honestly to BOI systems and those BOI systems consented to the withdrawals. Ignoring this situation, there are multiple other valid situations (including delayed clearing of debits) where a BOI system will consent to withdrawals which put the customer in overdraft.

I would draw posters attention to the posting guidelines on defamation (given many of the BOI customers involved are identifiable), but I think no judge would award damages, given these are honest opinions and any injury to reputation was primarily caused by customers' own actions.
 
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MugsGame said:
This is wholly different to masked looters or thieves.

Customers identified themselves honestly to BOI systems and those BOI systems consented to the withdrawal. Ignoring this situation, there are multiple other valid situations (including delayed clearing of debits) where a BOI system will consent to withdrawals which put the customer in overdraft.

I would draw posters attention to the posting guidelines on defamation (given many of the BOI customers involved are identifiable), but I think no judge would award damages, given these are honest opinions and any injury to reputation was primarily caused by customers' own actions.
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My understanding is that legally, you cannot take advantage of a banking error, regardless of the circumstances. In addition, if you knowingly set this up to withdraw funds you knew you didn't have, that's fraud. It's no different then a hacker exploiting a vulnerability, the root cause may be different, but the offence is still the same

Will the bank seek to prosecute these people?. No. Will the banks seek to recover the debt if it is not paid back, assuming it is in 3 figures?, probably not as it is not worth the effort. Will they bury the cost as a write off somewhere in the annual accounts?, yes, unless a shareholder asks the right question and then the answer more then likely will be "for reasons of security, we are not in a position to answer that question" or some other legal gobbledegook will be used to try and make it go away.

When Ulster lost their systems many years ago, they lost millions as a result of fraud.

As for people's credit rating, many young people don't care as they don't believe they will ever be in a position to borrow to buy a house etc. But that's another debate
 
(I have to admit that my views on these events may be coloured both by an intimate knowledge of the technology behind card payment systems, and a degree of schadenfreude at BOI's predicament: many years ago BOI failed to process a sizeable 5 figure withdrawal correctly and I ultimately had to visit a branch and pester senior staff until it was resolved, after which I resolved never to use BOI again).
 
MugsGame said:
This is wholly different to masked looters or thieves.

Customers identified themselves honestly to BOI systems and those BOI systems consented to the withdrawals. Ignoring this situation, there are multiple other valid situations (including delayed clearing of debits) where a BOI system will consent to withdrawals which put the customer in overdraft.
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What about unmasked looters? And the "someone stole my card and went to the ATM with it on that Tuesday night" sob stories that are probably in production right now?
MugsGame said:
I would draw posters attention to the posting guidelines on defamation (given many of the BOI customers involved are identifiable), but I think no judge would award damages, given these are honest opinions and any injury to reputation was primarily caused by customers' own actions.
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Almost literal ROFL
 
thedaddyman said:
My understanding is that legally, you cannot take advantage of a banking error, regardless of the circumstances. In addition, if you knowingly set this up to withdraw funds you knew you didn't have, that's fraud. It's no different then a hacker exploiting a vulnerability, the root cause may be different, but the offence is still the same
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I would say that there is a moral imperative to take advantage of some banking errors (but not this one!), e.g. in the rare cases where they (probably unintentionally) offer contractual terms which are hugely unfavorable to them.

IANAL, but the relevant legislation here references dishonesty and consent. It's clear that BOI consented to these withdrawals and the use of PIN authorisation would support a customer's contention that they had no dishonest intentions (although I accept that some customers hoped it was free money).

A hacker would be hiding their identity and forcing errors to acquire funds and therefore ab initio acting dishonestly.
 
@MugsGame

Anyone who went to an ATM on Tuesday afternoon to check their balance and withdraw money who found that the system was down and that they could not find their balance who withdrew €200 and inadvertently went overdrawn is fine. That could happen to any of us.

Anyone who knew that they had no money in their account and queued up on Tuesday night to take out €500 with no intention of giving it back thinking it was free money is a thief. They are taking something which does not belong to them.

Brendan
 
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