Gombeen Passports: TDs 'facilitating' for people who are entitled to them anyway.

[Marathon Man]

Anyone else have a problem with TDs 'facilitating' passports for people who are entitled to them anyway?

The idea of political hacks 'facilitating' anything from passports to social welfare entitlements, for people who are entitled to them, sucks.

If they are entitled to them, then they should get them without having to kow-tow to these gombeens. On the other hand, if the 'system' is being abused and people 'mucked about', intentionally or otherwise by civil servants, and therefore have to go through the gombeens, then there is something seriously wrong with the system - and I'm not saying there is - unless, of course, the policians intentionally have made it so!

6,500 odd political pressure requests for passports in 2007? Something stinks!

Including, but more so than any other politician, I think that the idea of the holder of the office of An Taoiseach, whether past, present, or future, 'facilitating' a passport for someone who is entitled to one anyway smacks of Killnascully or Ballygash!

 

[Simeon]

Presumably it takes an hour or so of overworked civil servants time to do the work in each of these cases. 6500 hours = 812.5 days = 162.5 weeks = about 3.5 years salary. Now these people could and should have applied and done the slog themselves. Instead , politicians got paid (after all they get salaries), for doing a job that they should not be doing. And also the penpushers for doing their bit at their masters' behest. If they are so overworked, why do unnecessary work? Must be votes in it.

 

[redstar]

This is the most glaring example of rotten political clientelism in Ireland today. The Taoiseach says it goes on all the time, Mary O'Rourke said in an interview that she already had two passports at her home ready for collection by a constituent. Not one of them questioned whether elected TD's should be doing this.

Whats the difference between getting a passport for someone, presumably in return for a vote, and (allegedly) taking money from developers in return for favoureable planning decisions ?

Its just a matter of scale.

 

[Black Sheep]

I totally agree with marathon man that all this facilitating Passports, Social Welfare, Medical Cards etc. stinks. But do you not think it is being invited by Politicions who are very busy polishing up their Halos.

Haven't we all heard on a daily basis how wonderful Mr.x is because he got me the medical card. He just forgot to mention that I was entitled to it anyhow and all I had to do was apply on a fairly simple form.

Why civil servants HSE etc put up with this rubbish I fail to understand

 

[Thirsty]

Credit where credit is due - there are a lot of people out there who find negotiating Social Welfare and / or the Health system intimidating.

Form filling etc., may be meat and potatoes to many people - but not every one finds it straightforward. If that's all TDs are doing, then at least they are doing something to help.

SVP provide this sort of assistance every day for a lot less publicity.

 

[Black Sheep]

So do Citizens Information Centres provide assistance filling out all types of forms.
The service is free & confidential with no strings attached. No votes are expected

 

[Purple]

Anyone else have a problem with TDs 'facilitating' passports for people who are entitled to them anyway?

The idea of political hacks 'facilitating' anything from passports to social welfare entitlements, for people who are entitled to them, sucks.

disagree. Politicians are there to help their constituents. As long as they don't break the law I see no problem with them doing this. In fact I consider it to be part of their job.
(I have never used my local politician for anything so I have no agenda here)

 

[Simeon]

"Politicians are there to help their constituents". Of course they are. Did I hear some voices from the back saying anything but? Only the worst type of cynic would say otherwise. Does anyone remember any of that noble bunch giving brown envelopes in times of hardship to constituents? Or developers?

 

[Green]

The real question is here what do the people of ireland want their politicians to do?

Time and time agin we have voted for and put up with gombeenism...you get what you pay for..so just dont bother to ever complain again about public services...or planning or anything else...we have voted for and are happy to maintain this current wasteful crappy system....

 

[Green]

disagree. Politicians are there to help their constituents. As long as they don't break the law I see no problem with them doing this. In fact I consider it to be part of their job.
(I have never used my local politician for anything so I have no agenda here)

Using that logic if you asked your local politician to wipe your ass..you would expect him/her to do so

 

[Purple]

Using that logic if you asked your local politician to wipe your ass..you would expect him/her to do so

I wouldn't but maybe some would...

 

[Purple]

The real question is here what do the people of ireland want their politicians to do?

Time and time agin we have voted for and put up with gombeenism...you get what you pay for..so just dont bother to ever complain again about public services...or planning or anything else...we have voted for and are happy to maintain this current wasteful crappy system....

We have a system that gives us weak government and a strong parliament. With a PR system that can see a TD loose their seat because of a few votes we will always see them involved in low-level local issues that, in my opinion, should be left to local councillors. But how many people vote for their national government based on local issues? You can't blame them for doing what the electoral want (within the law).

 

[zag]

I think what many people find odd (and more than a little bit strange) is that the TDs get involved in it at all.

If you want a passport you fill the form and send it to the Passport Office.

If you have trouble with that you can talk to Citizens Information or some other services and they can help you fill the form and *then* send it to the Passport Office.

If you have problems with the Passport Office then, sure, your TD can enquire on your behalf and find out what the problem is. Maybe somone mis-spelled your name somewhere and your records can't be found, maybe you need the passport in 2 hours time so you can catch a flight to a funeral and your TD can vouch for your identity.

But I don't understand why a TD should be in the picture at all in the normal course of events when you are entitled to a passport and you are in no more of a hurry than the rest of us mugs in the queue waiting 10 days or whatever to get the document back.

I know of one ex-TD who lost at least one familys worth of votes when he contacted a constituent to tell him he had checked with the Planning Office and didn't expect any problems with the planning application which had been filed. My friend was not impressed at all that the TD thought he should have had a part in the plannning process at all and that he had taken it upon himself to 'make representations' to the planners on his behalf when thi had not been requested.

z

 

[Caveat]

I know of one ex-TD who lost at least one familys worth of votes when he contacted a constituent to tell him he had checked with the Planning Office and didn't expect any problems with the planning application which had been filed. My friend was not impressed at all that the TD thought he should have had a part in the plannning process at all and that he had taken it upon himself to 'make representations' to the planners on his behalf when thi had not been requested.

It's like something out of Killinaskully

 

[almo]

I'm with Purple insofar as that your public rep, Cllr, TD MEP are there to help, in whatever capacity they can.

HOWEVER - our dear leader was getting passports for foreign citizens, not some local yokel, so whenit's taken outside the state doesn't that seem a little worrying.

 

[Purple]

HOWEVER - our dear leader was getting passports for foreign citizens, not some local yokel, so whenit's taken outside the state doesn't that seem a little worrying.

Agreed

 

[Green]

I'm with Purple insofar as that your public rep, Cllr, TD MEP are there to help, in whatever capacity they can.

I don't agree. You say that they "are there to help, in whatever capacity they can" really? ..what a waste of public resources this is...because they are all frequently chasing the same issues.

This was highlighted by Jim Glennon ex Td Dublin North that everyone, even in the same party, were chasing the same small local issues.. So you think its right that Cllr, TD and MEP are all drawn into the same issues..that we pay three seperate sets of representatives to do the same thing, that we pay three seperate sets of representatives to clog up parliament and the relevant local authority or Govt Departments with "representations" and then of course send the local individual who contacted them a christmas card as well! We pay for all this !!

Its time people in the State woke up to what we are paying for this level of political representation..Take a look at New Zealand and see how many MP they have and what they pay them.....

 

[ashambles]

Being asked to get a passport and being able to hand it over within a few days is one of the few things a TD can actually do where they can quickly see a result. It probably feels like real work. Also saying no is not an option since the next TD would do it then instead.

Now that this passport office bypass is well known maybe everybody will just go through the TD for the passport, why bother trying to find a garda to sign the photo when a TD will do it, why bother paying the 50 euro same day/next day counter service when a TD will do it for free.

(One reason though to pay the 50 euro fee is that if anything getting a passport via a TD seems slower than the same day/next day service you get if you go in yourself.)

 

[csirl]

disagree. Politicians are there to help their constituents. As long as they don't break the law I see no problem with them doing this. In fact I consider it to be part of their job.

I totally disagree with this. The function of our policitians is to legislate in parliament/government. This is the reason their job exists.

With regard to dealing with passports, planning applications, social welfare etc. a politician legally speaking has no more power than any citizen. I would guess that confidentiality laws regarding peoples personal details get broken all the time by TDs. Legally speaking, if e.g. a TD writes to Social Welfare regarding a constituents claim, the response from SW should be "we are not allowed to comment on individual cases or disclose personal information to third parties etc.." Problem is that most public servants regard TDs as being like demi-gods to be accommodated without any regard to the law.

The other thing I dont like about this behaviour is that it shows a lack of respect for democracy. Our laws are discussed and voted on by TDs in parliament. Once a decision is made, it is undemocratic for any TD to be trying to circumvent the law outside parliament. If they have an issue with the law, they should raise it in the Dail.

 

[Green]

Problem is that most public servants regard TDs as being like demi-gods to be accommodated without any regard to the law.

I think you'll find that this is not the case....with FOI, C&AG's Ombudsman..etc