Get the Unemployed to do unpaid Community Work

Complainer said:
Did you ask the local painters/decorators what they thought of the idea?
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In a village of less than 150 souls, the ratio of professional painters is somewhat small. But as most of the lived-in houses were being painted by owners/professionals, I thought that any nefarious questions might have been against the spirit of the whole thing. Something that you don't seem to get. Surely there must be an antidote to your angst. Or do you revel in being miserable .......... no need to answer.
 
Sunrock hit the nail on the head - university qualified people will not be required to clean the effluent of the affluent. Love it. This taken to the n-th degree would indicate that universiy qualified people should not serve time for crime either. A bit obtuce, I know, but relevant.

And Purple, your call for my post to be removed. I have no doubt you can argue well for free speech . . . unfortunately, the truth hurts. And TOUGH!!
 
What I find misleading is politicians and posters suggesting ways to get the long term unemployed, people with disabilities, people with no education,etc back into the workforce. This is a big red herring as these same politicians show no such concern to get the young eager qualified,eminently employabe unemployed back to work.
Another ruse is to threaten to raise the pension age so people would work till they are 70.
 
Chocks away said:
In a village of less than 150 souls, the ratio of professional painters is somewhat small. But as most of the lived-in houses were being painted by owners/professionals, I thought that any nefarious questions might have been against the spirit of the whole thing. Something that you don't seem to get. Surely there must be an antidote to your angst. Or do you revel in being miserable .......... no need to answer.
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Maybe Bertie was right all along - those who want to question things should just go and kill themselves instead. Let's just be ruled by the prevailing school of thought at the Sindo or the Daily Mail or whatever right-wing media outlet tells us what to do.
 
RMCF said:
But that could easily be addressed as I am sure they would not need every single unemployed person in Ireland to help, so why not start with those longest on the dole? Thsi way it will not hit those who were busy workign over the last few years, and it will also catch those who were unemployed while this country was booming and there was loads of jobs for all.

If you are fit and healthy and able to work, and have been unemployed for say 5 years, then you are just a work-shy layabout (imho).
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My point exactly.
Re complainer's point about the dignity of a job and a living wage, I don't see where I said otherwise.
 
A lot of parishes have a tidy towns committee, residents do all sort of flower displays, gardening and painting and they don't get paid for it.
The scheme might work but it's not really necessary in a lot of places, we have it already from volunteers :)

sunrock said:
For example we have the teachers and their unions complaining about large class sizes.At the same time we have a large number of unemployed teachers looking for a teaching job.Surely it would not be too hard to put the unemployed teachers working for even 2 to 3 days a week in the schools for their dole money or a bit more.The existing teachers unlike the aforementioned painters would not suffer a cut in their pay or hours, yet of course they would oppose this measure tooth and nail showing up their hypocritical concerns about large class sizes.
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Oh I can hear the cries about race to the bottom already!
So it will probably never happen, too much opposition
 
sunrock said:
For example we have the teachers and their unions complaining about large class sizes.At the same time we have a large number of unemployed teachers looking for a teaching job.Surely it would not be too hard to put the unemployed teachers working for even 2 to 3 days a week in the schools for their dole money or a bit more.The existing teachers unlike the aforementioned painters would not suffer a cut in their pay or hours, yet of course they would oppose this measure tooth and nail showing up their hypocritical concerns about large class sizes.
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So you want to have two teachers, working side by side in the same school, doing the same work. One is paid a full professional salary, and the other is paid subsistence-level dole for doing the same work? The second teacher is punished simply for having the misfortune to find themselves unemployed.
 
Complainer said:
So you want to have two teachers, working side by side in the same school, doing the same work. One is paid a full professional salary, and the other is paid subsistence-level dole for doing the same work? The second teacher is punished simply for having the misfortune to find themselves unemployed.
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Or maybe the second teacher is punished because the first teacher is paid so much that the state can't afford to pay the second one properly.
I do agree though; it would be an untenable situation. The grossly inflated salaries in teaching have to be addressed for the sake of the education system and the countries future but that's not the way to do it.
 
Complainer said:
Maybe Bertie was right all along - those who want to question things should just go and kill themselves instead. Let's just be ruled by the prevailing school of thought at the Sindo or the Daily Mail or whatever right-wing media outlet tells us what to do.
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Anything exciting in The Morning Star or Grauniad recently? :)
 
Purple said:
Or maybe the second teacher is punished because the first teacher is paid so much that the state can't afford to pay the second one properly.
I do agree though; it would be an untenable situation. The grossly inflated salaries in teaching have to be addressed for the sake of the education system and the countries future but that's not the way to do it.
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Well it is a start in having an extra badly needed teacher in the school at no extra cost to the state.You could have 2 unemployed teachers doing 2 to 3 days work in the week for their dole. It is voluntary so the "unemployed teacher" is happy. The existing high paid teacher should have nothing to complain about.
Of course teachers salaries should be much lower and unemployed teachers,maybe after a stint of voluntary teaching brought on to the permanent staff.
 
I always wonder in which dreamland people live who think that 100% employment is possible. Sure if we try the communist experiment we might on paper reach that.

There will always be those who cannot find a job and it’s the state’s responsibility to take care of them if they genuine try to get a job.

For those who are not really seeking a new job we need to cut the benefits but those who seek should get benefits.

It would be an idea to allow unemployed people to work in areas where there is a staff shortage and people with minimum training can be used for the social good of the overall population (meals on wheels, looking after the elderly etc.) but as it is in other countries in those circumstances, a higher benefit should be paid. Rewarding people for trying to get back in the labour market and not sitting at home watching telly the whole day.
 
sunrock said:
Well it is a start in having an extra badly needed teacher in the school at no extra cost to the state.You could have 2 unemployed teachers doing 2 to 3 days work in the week for their dole. It is voluntary so the "unemployed teacher" is happy. The existing high paid teacher should have nothing to complain about.
Of course teachers salaries should be much lower and unemployed teachers,maybe after a stint of voluntary teaching brought on to the permanent staff.
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So should we look for volunteer nurses, and volunteer accountants, and volunteer lawyers to work for the state for free as well?
 
Does it get to the point that there are so many volunteers, there won't be any need to advertise permanent jobs?
 
Complainer said:
So should we look for volunteer nurses, and volunteer accountants, and volunteer lawyers to work for the state for free as well?
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These people are not volunteering to work for nothing .They would be doing for example 2 days work a week in their chosen qualification, and gaining valuable experience in the process and still receiving their dole money. In the real world ,unemployed qualified people especially recently qualied, are desperate to get some experience. So if there is a demand for their work, what is the problem with that? Of course ther will be opposition from well paid professionals, who will be uneasy when they realise that people with the same qualifications would prefer to work for less than sit around doing nothing.
 
I haven't heard of a mad clamour from unemployed people to work for nothing in schools. Of course, many people, both employed and unemployed, already work for nothing in their communities, on tidy towns and GAA clubs and other voluntary and community groups. There is no shortage of volunteering opportunities for those who need them. But to suggest that it now becomes the norm that unemployed people will be working for the dole is crazy. What's the betting that the funding provided to schools just happens to get cut by the equivalent of the zero cost resources in the next year's budget?
 
Complainer said:
What's the betting that the funding provided to schools just happens to get cut by the equivalent of the zero cost resources in the next year's budget?
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What's the betting that the unions would have pickets outside every school within an hour to stop unemployed teachers crossing the picket?
 
Our buisness leaders and policy makers are always praising the benefits of a flexible labour force. Workers in the hospitality industry,other private low paid work and employees of multinationals have no unions and have flexible working practises. These have given a lot of oppurtunity to young eager workers.
However in a public service like teaching, one have the scenario of permanent very high paid teachers and unemployed teachers on the dole with no hope of employment because of the public service embargo.This at a time of serious teacher shortages and very high teacher pupil ratios.I made a humble rough proposal suggesting a way that unemployed teachers could teach for 2 days a week for their dole or maybe a little more.
I am disappointed with posters opposition to my pragmation solution. These fall into 2 camps
First that existing teachers salaries or sensibilities will be undermined
secondly that the teachers from the unemployed ranks will be exploited...in working 2 days for their dole money on a voluntary basis
 
sunrock said:
Our buisness leaders and policy makers are always praising the benefits of a flexible labour force. Workers in the hospitality industry,other private low paid work and employees of multinationals have no unions and have flexible working practises. These have given a lot of oppurtunity to young eager workers.
However in a public service like teaching, one have the scenario of permanent very high paid teachers and unemployed teachers on the dole with no hope of employment because of the public service embargo.This at a time of serious teacher shortages and very high teacher pupil ratios.I made a humble rough proposal suggesting a way that unemployed teachers could teach for 2 days a week for their dole or maybe a little more.
I am disappointed with posters opposition to my pragmation solution. These fall into 2 camps
First that existing teachers salaries or sensibilities will be undermined
secondly that the teachers from the unemployed ranks will be exploited...in working 2 days for their dole money on a voluntary basis
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It's not a bad idea in helping young teachers get experience. The problem is and this happens in every company I have worked in, the company gets used to have these teachers doing jobs and therefore never fill the role with permanent staff even if the work is there for one.
 
Sunny said:
It's not a bad idea in helping young teachers get experience. The problem is and this happens in every company I have worked in, the company gets used to have these teachers doing jobs and therefore never fill the role with permanent staff even if the work is there for one.
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Then the long term cost to the state is reduced. How is that a bad thing?
 
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