French leaseback foreclosure

O

Optimistic

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Hi all,
I have a friend who bought a french leaseback 3/4 years ago. It has been a nightmare process from early on. The development is on it's second management company with minimal rental payments made by both companies so far. It is a nightmare process in trying to legally move a management company on.

He is under a lot of financial pressure at home and now trying to carry the french mortgage also. He has been trying to sell the apartment for the past year to no avail.

He is keen to let it go into foreclosure. It would probably make within 15-25K euros maximum of what is owed on the mortgage.If the apartment goes into foreclosure what are the chances of the french banks coming after him here in Ireland for the deficit?

Thanks for any thoughts or comments,
optimistic
 
Yes, I'd be interested in getting information on this also as I know several people now in difficulty with their French banks. Can the French bank come after you in Ireland for the deficit?
 
French mortgage Default

Did you get any help with the foreclosure would you recommend a french lawyer. I am going through the same thing
 
I am dealing with BNP Paribas and have asked what the procedures are for foreclosure. I dont expect I will receive any favours, not sure there is even a market for second hand lease back properties and VAT that was originally refunded will I expect be an issue in any potential sale. Having had 2 management companies go bust, considerable periods over the past 4 years of non payment of rent, the whole experience has been a complete nightmare. What was suppose to be a sleep easy investment, has turned into an administration nightmare.
 
Hi All, Do any of you have more info on this? I am suffering through something similar.
 
Hi
I know this is an old topic but i hope someone has had some progress since.
We are in the same boat. But, as far as i've understood, the French bank has Foreclosed our mortgage. However, we just got notified to pay up Co-ownership fees.
We thought the bank had taken back the property but it seems they just foreclosed the mortgage part. So, we still own it ??

Anyway, we are going to try pay the outstanding charges to get that sorted.

We want to sell it but it's hard to try find who to go to.

We would like to start to pay back every month to the bank but the account is foreclosed. We don't have money to pay back the money. So, the only way is per month. But, in effect, this is a mortgage. And i can't see how they would give us a mortgage once we are down as having a foreclosed mortgage.

Anyway, does anyone have any updates on their situation ?

Also, does anyone know if we can sell the property (i am assuming the deeds are still in our name and that's why we are getting co-ownership charges) even thought the mortgage is foreclosed ???

TIA
Rob
 
Hello Rob, just read your post.In the same boat as yourself any progress made? Me and my wife dont know what to do ourselves any advice cheers.
 
Hello,

Sadly there have been hundreds if not thousands of Irish people caught by these French Sale & Leaseback schemes. "Guaranteed Rent" is something many people were mislead by ....

Can I please suggest you consider posting a few basic details, such as:

1. Wwhere your property / properties are based

2. Who your tenant (the operator) is or was

3. If you have appointed a French solicitor / have a French accountant or tax agent

4. If you are in contact with the former sales agent who sold you the units or if not, why not ? They may be able to put you in contact with fellow investors and then in turn you can share information, possibly future costs etc while they clearly won't want to get into a discussion on any form of refund of your money I'm afraid.

I have had my own fair share of issues with French sale and leasebacks and in summary found:

- when things go wrong, they take a long time to put right and usually cost money (for professional fees in France etc)

- you cannot rely on the French justice system to help you, in terms of recovering unpaid rent. Ultimately by the time you get to the stage in the court process when you can win an award for unpaid rent, the tenant has gone bust. They will help you evict a tenant however, which is important in terms of simply getting the entity out of your property quickly. As soon as rent arrears first occur, I recommend you start this process. Do not accept explanations and apologies for rent delays, almost everyone who encounters a tenant falling into arrears, ultimately sees the tenant fail and a significant rent arrears position acrue first (based on what I've read and from speak with others who invested in French sale and leasebacks).

- many of the larger French banks have staff who speak excellent English and can try to work with you through English, if you don't speak very good French. While initially they may resist your requests for payment reductions or going onto interest only payments for a while - you will ultimately get them to help you, if you provide required documentation. Do contact the Bank asap. If they are resisting, ask for the contact details of their Médiateur (effectively an ombudsman) and if they refuse, then threaten to complain to the Fédération Bancaire Française (where you can also have an independent Médiateur appointed to review your case)

- while I did not personally have a legal dispute with my French bank, I know a couple of people who did. Their properties were taken and later sold, with legal action pending. There is strong suggestion that following the initial action in France, it would be followed by an action against the Borrowers in Ireland. I suggest you get independent legal advice if things get difficult.

- there are French lawyers who will work through English for you when engaged, but be careful some are very expensive and you need to agree fixed fees from the outset (ideally shared between a group of investors at the same scheme)

Sadly, the French sale & leasback schemes were controlled about as well as some of the S23 and S50 schemes over here .... in other words, they weren't controlled at all I'm afraid.
 
Hello again, I just received letter from France stating that there repossening my apartment and will sell it at starting price of 25k. I owe 100k, what actions if any can I take?
 
mark 77 said:
Hello again, I just received letter from France stating that there repossening my apartment and will sell it at starting price of 25k. I owe 100k, what actions if any can I take?
Click to expand...

You really need to get a French lawyer to represent you, imho.

Ultimately, I believe most of the loans provided by French banks to Irish (and other nationalities) were on a full recourse basis, so odds are they can come after you for any shortfall.
 
Cheers,
How and what way can they come after me? We are barely paying are mortgage here in ireland, they cant get blood from a stone. How do i go about getting a french lawyer to represent me? Many thanks for any advice given.
 
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