FF Ministers for Agriculture

Sunny said:
I don't really understand the criticism of Norma Foley.
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She is the least media savvy politician I've seen since Ghengis Khan, the perfect storm of contradictions. Making positive noises, she shakes her head, before answering direct questions, she looks away from the camera and down towards the ground - a mess of contradictions and verbal tics. As for Donnelly, he's an idiot, plain and simple. His response to questions about the global pandemic, was about driving cars and playing sports being dangerous. Say good-night Dick, as they used to say on the Rowan and Martin Laugh-in.

In contrast, the Labour leader from Portroo, Co Tipp, sounds positively statesman like, thanks to interventions (brainwashing?) by Teneo, the global influencer company owned and run by his brother and fellow Portroo man Michael Madden. The days when he had to be surrounded by ex-CIA and ex-FBI agents to keep his feet out of his gob appear to have passed. Portroo, local pronunciation, is my late mother's birthplace and I still have lots of family there, so I reserve the right to use inside information and be honest.
 
I agree , this is not acceptable at all for people in such positions of authority . What example is this to show to others ?
 
Brendan Burgess said:
I can understand an individual doing something stupid. It happens.
But how did 82 people do something so stupid? Surely they must have known that this was the wrong thing to do?
I heard some guy on the radio saying that the hotel had been assured by the Irish Hotels Federation that their proposed layout was ok. That does not make it ok.
Even if the local Gardai had given their approval, it would still have been the wrong thing to do.
I would like to hear from some politician who turned down the invitation because it was wrong. It particular, someone who played golf on the day but did not attend the dinner.
Brendan
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If the below is true I have sympathy for the hotel in terms of the regulations.
There seems to be a mess between what are the actual legal rules that must be followed.
And what is advice \ guidelines.
I don't exonerate the politicians because they are part of the group that issues the advice and so should be held to that standard.
And they are the ones who have blurred the lines between rules and advice.

The Irish Hotels Federation has said it sought clarification from the Department of Tourism on indoor gatherings prior to the controversial Oireachtas Golf Society event in Co Galway earlier this week. It said it advised all its members that “the status quo remains in terms of current operational procedures for hotels until further notice,” in line with the protocol agreed with the department.
www.thejournal.ie

Irish Hotels Federation says it sought Department advice on indoor gatherings prior to golf event

The organisation is “expecting additional guidance on urgent points of clarification early next week”.
www.thejournal.ie www.thejournal.ie
 
But was it ever within the guidelines? I know people who cancelled weddings for less than 100 people who would have jumped this option three weeks ago..

They had same serving staff and I doubt they had seperate toilets....
 
Perhaps it is the same ministers who should be going back to school when / if they reopen.....
 
This virus appears it is going to be with us for a long time yet. There has to be smarter ways of living with it.
NPHET and COVID Sub committee are useful and did a good job at the initial emergence of the virus.
But the pull between the return to normal economic, social activities and the implementation of health measures is railroading through any practical or logical planning at national level. Be it nursing homes, meat plants, indoor gatherings, weddings, funerals, golf societies, pub revellers, sports teams goal celebrations etc... etc... it appears this virus will keep re-emerging or the risk of it re-emerging will be around for quite some time.
 
WolfeTone said:
NPHET and COVID Sub committee are useful and did a good job at the initial emergence of the virus.
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yes the mistake was ministers continuing to treat NPHET with such reverance and implementing all their recommendations verbatim, some of the medics on NPHET had a zero Covid policy and that was the real reason why our measures were the most restrictive in Europe. Unfortunately the zero Covid policy is a total failure and we have the same number of new cases as many countries with much less restrictive measures. This has probably cost a few more billion in delayed openings. We should have stuck to the original roadmap, I doubt the cases we have today would be much higher anyway as people were socialising anyway outside of the restricted establishments. If the bars were open and hotels were allowed to have more people at weddings etc I doubt there would have been much of a hullabaloo about this golf outing.
 
joe sod said:
yes the mistake was ministers continuing to treat NPHET with such reverance and implementing all their recommendations verbatim, some of the medics on NPHET had a zero Covid policy and that was the real reason why our measures were the most restrictive in Europe.
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What's your source for this?
The usual reason I have heard for our measures being so restrictive was the parlous state of the health service.
Zero covid would reqiure real restrictions on entry to the country.
So it seems implausible\incoherent to me anyone would be pushing zero covid measures in isolation to such restrictions.
 
I like this piece that Fergal Bowers writes when he says " If this Covid crises continues and there is a General election would'nt it be a fascinating if there had to be a first - time ever postal vote (with physical voting ruled out due to social distancing ). It could result in the biggest turn out of all time. And all because the lads like milk tray or sorry golf
 
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Cillian de Gasgun being one high profile doctor on NPHET, here is a quote of his from early july from newstalk site when the covid numbers were very low,

"Ultimately, we want to get to a number that is as close to zero as possible if not zero and obviously, at this point, we seem to be going in the opposite direction" he said

so this is the thinking and this is what was driving government policy, obviously he did not use the term "zero covid" as he would be hung up on that rung. That explains why the july 20 opening phase was delayed even though only a small rise then. Delaying the reopening has cost the economy some more billions for little reward as the covid cases continued to rise despite the delayed opening. I don't believe that the limited reopening on july 20 would have been a big factor considering the big upsurge came from state failures in the testing regime in meat factories and asylum centres predominately, and spread from here to the wider community which explains why so many cases in Kildare.
 
joe sod said:
Cillian de Gasgun being one high profile doctor on NPHET, here is a quote of his from early july from newstalk site when the covid numbers were very low,
"Ultimately, we want to get to a number that is as close to zero as possible if not zero and obviously, at this point, we seem to be going in the opposite direction" he said
so this is the thinking and this is what was driving government policy, obviously he did not use the term "zero covid" as he would be hung up on that rung.
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All health authorities want to get to a number that is as close to zero as possible.
What do you expect him to say?
I am not seeing a zero covid at all costs policy from what you've presented so far.
 
It wasn't just fianna fail ministers though it was the irish establishment that were at that golf tournament. Ironically if it had not been for the lockdowns and moratoriums on foreign travel the attendance would have been much much less. Many would probably have been away in foreign climes at this peak holiday season. It probably became an attractive proposition due to the lack of social outlets for the last 5 months, thats probably why so many big hitters attended, there was nothing else happening
 
THE TAOISEACH AND Tánaiste have spoken to EU Commissioner Phil Hogan and asked him to consider his position in the wake of ‘golfgate’.
In a statement this evening, a spokesperson confirmed that:
“The Taoiseach and the Tánaiste did speak with Commissioner Hogan today and asked him to consider his position.
“They both believe that the event should never have been held, that the Commissioner’s apology came late and that he still needs to give a full account and explanations of his actions.”
www.thejournal.ie

Golfgate: Taoiseach and Tánaiste ask Phil Hogan to ‘consider his position’ as EU Commissioner

They said in a statement tonight that Hogan needs “to give a full account and explanations of his actions”.
www.thejournal.ie www.thejournal.ie
 
@odyssey06 i thought I was listening to Ciaran de Gasgun on Brendan O Connor but it was actually Sam McConkey but he was very clearly in the zero Covid group of academics. I had to edit the post because I was attributing what he was saying to Ciaran de Gasgun, the northern accent made me mix them up.
 
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I heard Jim O Callaghan of FF on RTE radio clearly taking a different approach to the governments policy on Covid, he wants relaxation and a move away from eradicating the virus which he said is "unattainable". He also said that the government appears to be following a zero Covid policy. I think the voices that have been quite up to now in relation to Covid are going to be much stronger in voicing their opposition to the current approach especially as the government approach has been severely weakened by the golf controversy. If ministers , judges and EU commissioners are not going to follow it how do you expect ordinary people to abide.
 
joe sod said:
I heard Jim O Callaghan of FF on RTE radio clearly taking a different approach to the governments policy on Covid, he wants relaxation and a move away from eradicating the virus which he said is "unattainable". He also said that the government appears to be following a zero Covid policy. I think the voices that have been quite up to now in relation to Covid are going to be much stronger in voicing their opposition to the current approach especially as the government approach has been severely weakened by the golf controversy. If ministers , judges and EU commissioners are not going to follow it how do you expect ordinary people to abide.
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I agree with your re: expecting ordinary people to abide...
But I'm still not seeing actions commensurate with a zero Covid policy and I think I'd need more than an 'it appears' from someone on the outs in FF to prove it. It does speak to there being opposition within FF to the current course though who may be using that as a rod to beat the government with.
 
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