Famine in Africa - Again.

Smugness is a condition that is rampant on this thread. Soi-disant experts here can easily come up with arguments to justify their non-contribution towards famine relief. Of course, they know that others will pay up, despite the cynicism of the "experts" and still they argue like they themselves will never see a poor day. Oh! to be smug.

In the meantime, thousands of human beings will starve to death and our experts will continue to argue and have full bellies while flatullating in silk.

Please bear a thought for the victims of the famine, believe it or not, they are human.
 
Leper said:
Smugness is a condition that is rampant on this thread. Soi-disant experts here can easily come up with arguments to justify their non-contribution towards famine relief. Of course, they know that others will pay up, despite the cynicism of the "experts" and still they argue like they themselves will never see a poor day. Oh! to be smug.
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I actually find your reply to be very smug. For those of us that have here questioned the viability of aid it has been very clear that the question is about whether or not aid has actually made things worse in Africa. Various valid reasons have been given why aid is not working and effectively nothing has changed.
It would be much more credible for you if you explained why you think these opinions are invalid or smug, rather than posting a gross generalisation with completely incorrect assumptions, such as "so-distant experts" and non-contributors.
 
Officials estimate that only about 280,000 of the 800,000 people without jobs are still eligible to claim unemployment benefits. This has resulted in a dramatic rise in the number of homeless people -- by up to 25 percent in Athens alone.
According to official data, unemployment is expected to climb to between 17 percent and 18 percent by the end of 2011, but the true figure could be as high as 23 percent. "That would be 1.2 million jobless
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people,

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,775301,00.html


Stavation in a deveolped country is a lot closer to us than we think, over 500,000 people in Greece ineligible for welfare benefits, it's scary. How are they supposed to live?
 
The scenes really are heart breaking to watch.

Its a difficult situation to comment on. Its too easy to say negative things about this, but their Gov's really need to get their priorities right.

It doesn't seem to matter how much money is donated, we will continue to have these famines. But surely one of the main things that needs tackled is the birth rate. It simply doesn't make any sense to bring large numbers of children into this level of poverty.

There but for the grace of God ........
 
For what its worth, I agree that the problem is not population growth.
However, that doesn't mean much to the children being born into that environment.

As a parent we have to make decisions as to what is the right/best thing to do for our kids and how many we should have..

I can only speak for myself,and I know that if contraceptives were available,and I had a choice to bring a child into that world, I would choose not too,in the meantime,I will continue to support them..And I know its more complicated than that..
 
The same arguments for not giving aid to Africa can be made for not giving us a bail out. Indeed the case for helping Ireland is much weaker; we have no starvation, no reforms of corrupt institutions, no post cold war problems, no destabilising wars in neighbouring countries, no interference by foreign powers corrupting our political processes, no leaders installed by former colonial masters, no climactic shocks, no legacy of tribalism, no unfair trade barriers etc.

If they keep bailing us out how will we ever learn?
They have to be cruel to be kind or else we’ll never grow up...

Oh no, hang on, it's different for us because well, because we're not African; we're real people.
 
thedaras said:
For what its worth, I agree that the problem is not population growth.
However, that doesn't mean much to the children being born into that environment.

As a parent we have to make decisions as to what is the right/best thing to do for our kids and how many we should have..

I can only speak for myself,and I know that if contraceptives were available,and I had a choice to bring a child into that world, I would choose not too,in the meantime,I will continue to support them..And I know its more complicated than that..
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Sorry but the problem is, amongst other less serious issues like corruption etc, precisely population growth that isn't sustainable, that is destroying the enviornment, and making never-ending aid an absolute necessity.

Many africans use children like an insurance policy/welfare system for old age. The insane spending on arms purchases is just that, insane. And it's facilitated by aid. Corruption likewise is facilitated by aid. There is an endemic aid culture. Many (including me) have supported charities for years, and the problems in Africa aren't getting better they are getting worse. It makes us feel good to "save the children" but we are doing it at the expense of making Africa virtually uninhabitable, unsustainable, and unsavable.

I have made a conscious decision not to give aid this time. It's not easy to do, I find the images horrendous. It would be much easier to give something and salve my conscience. But I think it's the right thing to do in the circumstances.
 
My personal response is to give aid/contributions to the red cross as a means to give targeted aid to the crisis management. Outside of that and the money is just to disseminated and unclear as to how much long-term value there is doing so.

There's mention of capitalism on the thread as a means to bring Africa out of its problems - but there is capitalism in Africa - unfortunately it is not broad-based. In addition African economies are commodity price dependent, and often one commodity per country. The result being that if e.g. coffee prices collapse, a number of African economies collapse as they are hyper-sensitive to commodity prices. If the economies were more broader based then it would also be more difficult for a corrupt government to control.

India is an example of how a country can move forward post - colonialism and away from an Agriculture/commodity based economy - now only 600million people are living a subsistence living - but at least the other 600miilion people have a wide variety of skills and the economy is more broader based and sustainable.
 
Certain counties should probably be ruled from abroad.

Their elites do not have the discipline, honesty or ethical development to govern a nation.

They have forfeited the right to rule by destroying their own nation and enriching themselves at the expense of their citizens.

I'm talking about Ireland - but the same argument could likely be made for several African nations.
 
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