Health Insurance Fair Deal Question

[Robert4]

Hi, can anyone give a DEFINATE answer to this question ..if a person enter the Fair deal scheme, and dies say after 6 months, the amount due to the HSE is say 10,000k, but 7.5% of the residence is actually 35,000k, which amount is due at death ??
The phrase 'no one pays more than the actual cost of the care' appears on the HSE website but its not very clear !

 

[twofor1]

..if a person enter the Fair deal scheme, and dies say after 6 months, the amount due to the HSE is say 10,000k, but 7.5% of the residence is actually 35,000k, which amount is due at death ??

Don’t understand this sentence, the amount to be repaid would be whatever the HSE paid out to date based on the house value, in this case it does not appear to be €10K or €35K.

If the person was not a member of a couple and If 7.5% of the value of the home is €35K, that’s €2,916 monthly, if the person died after 6 months the HSE would have loaned €17.5K to that date so that should be amount repayable.

 

[Slim]

Don’t understand this sentence, the amount to be repaid would be whatever the HSE paid out to date based on the house value, in this case it does not appear to be €10K or €35K.

If the person was not a member of a couple and If 7.5% of the value of the home is €35K, that’s €2,916 monthly, if the person died after 6 months the HSE would have loaned €17.5K to that date so that should be amount repayable.

If a person takes out the loan and it amounts to 35k but they die after 6 months, the estate will owe 35k/36x12 or €972.22 per month. Total due on the Loan of €5,833.33.

 

[twofor1]

Robert4 clearly said 7.5% of the value of the house is €35K, I said if that is the case, then €17.5K would be due for 6 months.

If what Robert4 meant was €35K is 7.5% for each of 3 years, in other words 22.5%, then Slim's amount of €5.8k would be correct, perhaps Robert could clarify.

Either way the amount to be repaid is only whatever has been paid out to date based on the house value.

 

[Slim]

Robert4 clearly said 7.5% of the value of the house is €35K, I said if that is the case, then €17.5K would be due for 6 months.

If what Robert4 meant was €35K is 7.5% for each of 3 years, in other words 22.5%, then Slim's amount of €5.8k would be correct, perhaps Robert could clarify.

Yes, my apologies, I was calculating the entire loan at 35k! Do you mean to say that the amount to be repaid is the total amount due on the loan pro-rated for the time spent in the home under FD?

 

[Waver]

But why would the HSE have lent 17.5k if the cost of the care was only 10k?

 

[twofor1]

Do you mean to say that the amount to be repaid is the total amount due on the loan pro-rated for the time spent in the home under FD?

My understanding is;

If 7.5% of the value of the house is €35K, then this is the amount the HSE would lend annually for each of the first 3 years, this is usually paid to the nursing home monthly, in this case that would be €2,916.66 monthly for 36 months. The family home is disregarded from the calculations after 3 years.

If the person died after 6 months the HSE would have paid out €17.5K (6 x €2,916.66) of the loan at that point, so that would be the amount due.

If the person died after 14 months, the HSE would have paid out €40.8K (14 x €2,916.66) of the loan at that point, so that would be the amount due.

Your local Nursing Home Support office should confirm, I always found them very helpful, their addresses and phone numbers are on page 12 of the application form here:

http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/4/olderpeople/nhss/AppForm.pdf

 

[twofor1]

But why would the HSE have lent 17.5k if the cost of the care was only 10k?

The cost of care would be a lot more than €10K.

Nursing home costs are typically €4K monthly, the odd one might be a bit less, most are more.

I have relations in two homes, one is over €5K monthly, the other is a bit less than €6K monthly, totally out of reach for most, us included without Fair Deal.

 

[Robert4]

Hello and thanks for the replies, apologies, I did not express myself properly..what I mean is..if a person in the Fair Deal scheme dies after 6 months, with amount paid being 10k, is that ALL that is due to HSE, or do they automatically take 7.5% value of the house ??

 

[Slim]

Hello and thanks for the replies, apologies, I did not express myself properly..what I mean is..if a person in the Fair Deal scheme dies after 6 months, with amount paid being 10k, is that ALL that is due to HSE, or do they automatically take 7.5% value of the house ??

Hi OP. It is not the amount paid(to the home?) that is relevant. The person in the FD scheme pays 80% of income per week plus 7.5% of value of PPR for 3 years (pro-rata if they die within 3 years) plus 7.5% of other capital assets indefinitely. If the amount assessed as the contribution is greater than the cost of care, the family/client would be advised to pay directly to the nursing home until the client's assets reduce enough to warrant implementing the FD. It's important to get the assessment done sooner as the 3 years limit on the 7.5% f PPR starts as soon as assessment is carried out.

 

[Robert4]

Ok...again thanks for replies..the HSE answered my question...only the amount paid to a nursing home at time of death is owing..so..lets say FOR EXAMPLE ONLY...7.5% of value of house is 30k...but only 10k has been paid at time of death...only 10k is owing...

 

[Slim]

Ok...again thanks for replies..the HSE answered my question...only the amount paid to a nursing home at time of death is owing..so..lets say FOR EXAMPLE ONLY...7.5% of value of house is 30k...but only 10k has been paid at time of death...only 10k is owing...

Fair play. Thanks for the clarification.