Excessively High Gas Bills, Please Advise as to Possible Problem???

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blobert

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Hello,

There seems to be a fairly serious problem with the gas in rental apartment we are living in, the bills are about 4 times higher than in our previous place.

The Gas is used for central heating, heating hot water in a tank for showers and for 2 rings on the hob, oven is electric.

The previous bill was very high (€250+)but our latest one seems ridiculously high for the amount of gas we are using.

For the past 2 months the only use of the gas is for heating hot water for 40 mins in the morning and 40 mins in the evening. I have the boiler set to the lowest level that will heat the water to a decent temperature (certainly not boiling). Our bill said we used 257 m3, or 2920kWh, and was for €181.80

To me, for a small amount of water heating this seems incredibly high.

The place was built in 1991/1992, the boiler is a Poterton Netaheat.

We had Bord Gais come out to service it the other day, the guy could not access the boiler as there is a plaster board bit over it preventing access. This means the boiler has never been serviced. The guy from Bord Gais said that he didn't think servicing it would make a huge issue to gas consumption, he didn't really have any other ideas as to what was the problem and so didn't do anything.

As far as I can tell the gas pressure seems very high, when we have the gas hob on the flames are about 3 inches high and the gas comes out with huge force. Do you think this could be the problem, ie the flow of gas seems too strong.

I had a look at the meter in the basement of the apartment complex and when even the hobs are on the numbers seem to move very quickly. There seems to be no way to adjust the flow, there is a yellow handle that seems to control the flow on/off beside the meter, I moved this from fully on to closer to off and the gas flow seems much more normal, assuming this is reasonably safe to do? Will check the usage over the next week or so and see if this makes any difference. Is there another way to regulate the gas flow?

The other thing to do is to bang away the plasterboard and get the thing serviced, though as I said Mr Bord Gais did not think this would make a huge difference.

Would really appreciate any help with this. We really like the apartment and where it is but the bills are crazily high (previously posted about the high electrity bill, it was mostly as a result of an incredibly inefficient 18 year old fridge freezer. We can't afford to live here unless we can sort out these high bills.

The landlord is a nice old man, but incredibly reluctant to spend money, hence I'd say the apartment has had practically nothing done to it since new.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance
 
Did you post this before?

Were your bills estimated and there has been a reading which takes up any shortfall?
 
It seems very high. I'd be worried about the boiler not haven been serviced for health & saftey reasons alone.

My bi Monthly bill would be around the €70 mark for hot water & cooking (I'd use less for heating water than the 80 mins a day you use).

my highest bill in winter would have been €120, but that was for heating a 3 bed house.

And like Sconhome said Where the bills for actual reading?
 
We would pay similar amount to heat a 4 bed detached house in the winter. Water heater is electric, 4 gas rings but not used a whole lot.

Do you have a gas fire, those things eat gas.
Is it possible that an othe apartment is hooked up to your meter? Count the meters in the basements vs no of apartments.
 
Thanks for the replies,

The meter readings are accurate, I have been into the basement to check the meters.

My cunning plan to reduce the gas flow just stoped the boiler from working so I've had to put it back on to maximum.

The fact that the guy from Bord Gais could not work out what was wrong troubles me, if he can't work it out who am I meant to go to next?

I'm fitting a timer to the immersion tomorrow, it will be much cheaper to heat by electricity while I get it sorted.

Any further advice would be much appreciated.
 
Hi

To get any real idea of where the problem lies, you will need to get some solid data. In order to do this, you need to take readings at various times during a day (i.e before you go to bed, then after the boiler has been on to heat water in the morning, then befroe cooking etc.) that way you can identify if the boiler is using a huge amount of gas per water heatng cycle.

Personally I think that the clue may be here:
gas hob on the flames are about 3 inches high and the gas comes out with huge force.
Click to expand...
when even the hobs are on the numbers seem to move very quickly
Click to expand...
there are 2 types of nozzle for gas hobs, one for using gas from a bottle and another for using gas from the street.
Quickest thing to do would be to get a gas service engineer to check this out, but to save the eingiiner cost compare the speed the numbers go round with just the boiler on, and the speed the numbers go round with just the hob. If this points to the hob, then get the engineer.

HTH
Gtec
 
I agree that it's alarming that the boiler is inaccessible for servicing - if it's always been so then it would seem that boiler has not been checked for safety in 18 years! Even if your landlord is reluctant to spend money, presumably he's keen that an unserviced boiler doesn't blow the place sky high, or carbon monoxide poison his tenants (can I assume your surviving relatives would be ligitigious?). Get him to pay to have it excavated and properly serviced. And at least then you'll know if the boiler itself is the problem. (Although the person who posted about the two settings of a gas hob sounds like they could be on to something)
 
What did the BG man call to the apt. for? Access to the boiler was restricted by a sheet of plasterboard and he didn't reckon servicing the boiler would help? Any competant person working in the industry would immediately realise that CO (carbon monoxide ) poisoning can be caused by insufficient combustion air or room ventilation. The boiler type is 15-20 yrs old and is most likely operating between 60-65% efficiency. Put this against the modern condensing type approx. 95% efficiency, you'll see where the savings are to be made. Unfortunately for tenants, boiler efficiency is way down the list of priorities for most landlords.

The gas hob is likely to be as old, but 3" flame is too high. If this hob was originally made for bottled gas, it's likely that the orrifice of the injectors were re-bored too big for Nat gas. This would add to the gas consumtion, but not too much, unless you're cooking for an army on the two ring hob. Again a compentant person should easily rectify this.

If there is access to the basement for all, it wouldn't be the first time that meters have been switched or registered to the wrong appartments. To check, close off all appliances and have someone turn on appliance while you visually keep an eye on the meter clock. I work in the industry and believe it or not, it's quite a common occurance, mainly by accident...
 
To determine if a appliance is working correctly you need to confirm a few things:

1) working pressure at appliance needs to be 20 mbar nat gas/ 37 lpg

2) burner pressure(s) (for older boilers) the figure to check against is found in the boiler manual

3) combustion products analyzed (newer boilers) the figure to check against is found in the boiler manual

4) gas rate, the figure to check against is found in the boiler manual

5) all controls working correctly

6) flame picture is correct

If you have it serviced and have these checks done you can confirm the appliances are working correctly and not wasting gas, all these checks should be done as part of the service and a competent engineer should be able to determine if your boiler is working correctly, if the boiler is proved to be fine then it will be how the heat is used that needs to be looked at, as i posted elsewhere if you think your gas is to high turn it off and call it in to Bord Gais and they will check out there end, Gary.
 
One other thing to check...do you have a gas leak?
Turn off all your appliances and check if there is any movement on the gas meter.

After that GTECs suggestion should be your next step.
 
Thanks for all the replies guys I really appreciate it.

Just as an update Bord Gais serviced the boiler and said it seemed fine (for its age) and that there did not seem to be anything major wrong.

Not sure of where to go from here, possibly get them out to inspect the meter, the guy servicing the boiler said he couldn't look at this. I'm finding this very frustrating, the bills suggest there must be something wrong but I'm finding it very difficult to find what it is.

I will take GTECs and measure the usage, the only problem is that the meter is in the underground car park of the building which is very difficult to access (have to go through the offices next door at 9-5 hours only). I'd also need someone else to start the boiler for me while I'm down there measuring it. I can only get down to it for a few mins a day after work so it will be difficult to measure it repeatedly.

Will give it a try and post back here with some numbers.

Thanks again for your help.
 
Knowing how much gas is passing threw you meter will not help you, all you will know is how much gas is being used, not if you are using it efficiently, you have been given a lazy service by your Bord Gais engineer, it is not unreasonable to ask if the boiler is running efficiently and gas rating is the only way to determine if your boiler is efficient and running asper it's design, to do a gas rate check takes a few minutes to do and is simple, it's done by turning the boiler to maximum, measuring the amount of gas used over a given time from the meter, doing a quick calculation and making sure it matches the amount of gas the manufacture say it will use, higher or lower readings indicate a problem, Bord Gais are cheeky because the will use a analyser on the flue which will identify if the boiler is clean not if the settings are right, so i would ring up Bord Gais tell them you wish to have your boiler gas rated and you feel it should have been done as part of the service, if they say no then take you're money elsewhere and find a proper gas man who will happily sort out your simple request, Gary
 
Just to report back on this.

I monitored how much gas having the two hobs uses. Assuming that the 3 figures in red on the meter refer to the breakdown of 1 m3 of gas, I would have to have both hobs on for 100 mins to use 1m3 of gas. Now I'd say we use the hobs for 50 mins at best per day, and I'm sure it's way less than this but for the sake of working it out this is easiest. So we would use 1m3 of gas every 2 days or 30m3 over 2 months.

Next I measured how much gas the boiler uses being on for 30 mins in the morning and 30 mins in the evening just heating water for showers. This uses 0.7m3 per day, ie 42m3 every 2 months. Now one thing to factor in here is that its probably a lot easier to heat water recently as its quite warm already but nonetheless I'll go with the figures I just measured.

So, my use of the hobs and water heating means my bimonthly bill should be for 73m3.

At previous rates of about 62c per m3 of gas that means the gas should cost 45.26.
Add on standing charge for 60 days of 8.52, that's €53.78, plus VAT is 61.04

At the newer rate of 54.6c per m3 that should be 39.93 + 8.52 = 48.45 + VAT is 54.99

So that's roughly what my most recent bill should have been for the ammount of gas we have been using.

The actual bill was for €181.80 saying a total of 257m3 of gas had been used.
Now this was based on an estimate and they over estimated by about 90m3 but this still implies we used 167m3 of gas when it should only have been about 70m3.


How can this be happening?

What should I do next?

I really appreciate all the help, am determined to get to the bottom of this, its been going on for months.

Thanks
 
Hi Blobert,

You say you have checked the meter bank in the basement - is it a case the meters are numbered by Apartment?

Check the actual meter number on your bill against the meter number on the meter flagged for your apartment - if they are different, your meter is mixed up with another Apt and you are paying someone elses bill.
 
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I agree with Manto abotu the meter mix-up but checking the meter number against your bill will not resolve be the problem.

The only way to determine if the meter is mixed up with another apartment is to switch everything off in your place and then check if the meter is still running. If the dials are still turning then call and report this as chances are every meter in the building is mixed up.

When apartments are built initially, banks of pipes are left on the wall so that the meters can be fitted at a later stage. The pipes are marked off by the builder but there can be mistakes which results in the wrong meter going to the work apartment. This only happens in older buildings as new regulations have been put in place which requires checking each of the pipes.
 
Thanks guys,

I am certain the meter is measuring our apartment, I suppose it is possible that it is connected up to someone elses one as well but this is unlikley.

Any suggestions as what to do next would be appreciated.

Thanks
 
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