European wants to understand Irish History

C

Clamball

Registered User
Messages
819
I have a young Spanish person working for me and she wants to watch some films to help understand Irish history.

Suggestions at work have been; and I am not saying they are good…

Michael Collins
The wind that shakes the Barley
Belfast
The Quiet Man
The Field

Any other ideas?
 
"The Quite Man" although not a historical film it still would give insights into how Ireland was in the 1920s,
if not at the very least it's an enjoyable film to watch for a couple of hours
Also not a film but would "Reeling in the years" on the RTE player be a suggestion
 
Clamball said:
I have a young Spanish person working for me and she wants to watch some films to help understand Irish history.

Suggestions at work have been; and I am not saying they are good…

Michael Collins
The wind that shakes the Barley
Belfast
The Quiet Man
The Field

Any other ideas?
Click to expand...
Michael Collins is a dreadful film. It's totally inaccurate nonsense, they may as well watch Far and Away with Tom Cruse. Complete rubbish. As historically accurate as Black 47.

Belfast is a stage play on TV but if you can get past the chunkiness, the stilted dialogue and the bad accents it's a good study of the time though 1971 is a more visceral take on the period and, in my opinion, a bad better film. The Boxer is also a better examination of the North during the Troubles.

Philomena is also worth a watch if they are interested in how Ireland has changed.

Does the young person read?
 
Last edited:
When I was doing confined exam competitions for promotion in the old days there was always a History Paper. I used to use a 3rd class primary school history book for my revision. Therefore, I suggest some such book for this young Spanish lady.

Incidentally, Michael Collins was the only film I viewed where there was a huge round of applause from the patrons using the cinema at the end of the movie. I'm not saying the plots were ultra accurate, but it was "box-office."
 
Leper said:
Incidentally, Michael Collins was the only film I viewed where there was a huge round of applause from the patrons using the cinema at the end of the movie. I'm not saying the plots were ultra accurate, but it was "box-office."
Click to expand...
It's as historically accurate as Braveheart and Schindler's List as in it's nowhere near it.
 
Purple said:
Michael Collins is a dreadful film. It's totally inaccurate nonsense, they may as well watch Far and Away with Tom Cruse. Complete rubbish. As historically accurate as Black 47.
Click to expand...
We know what you think, but we have no idea why we should agree with you.
 
cremeegg said:
We know what you think, but we have no idea why we should agree with you.
Click to expand...
In no particular order:
  • The film showed Dev hiding behind a wall in Béal na Bláth
  • The portrayal of Dev as a pantomime villain
  • The deaths of Harry Boland and Ned Broy are completely made up
  • The car bomb in Dublin Castle never happened (there were no car bombs at all)
  • Dev surrendering in the GPO at the end of the 1916 Rising instead of Boland's Mills
  • The lack of a mention of Home Rule
  • The lack of any acknowledgement of the unpopularity of the 1916 Rising at the time
  • The portrayal of Collins as anything other than an Armchair General
  • The portrayal of a political campaign right after 1916 even though the first Dáil hadn't met
  • Not showing Collins appointing himself as Commander and Chief and later strong-arming Arthur Griffith into ratifying that appointment in the Dáil
  • Griffith, not Collins was the head of the Treaty negotiations
  • Dev is portrayed as a bit of a racist when he says in a speech that "only pure blood Irish" should be able to participate in the new Republic which never happened and wouldn't have happened since he wasn't pure blood Irish and he wasn't a racist
  • The portrayal of the use of an Armoured Car in Croke Park on Bloody Sunday
  • It was the Black and Tans and the RIC that fired into the crowd on Bloody Sunday, not regular British Army forces.
  • The failure to show that most of all Collins was an extraordinarily able and energetic man with a brilliant intellect and more like the CEO of a company than a military leader.
But the worst part of the film was the attempt by Neil Jordan to create a historical and emotional connection between the Provisional IRA and Michael Collins which, of course, couldn't be further from the truth.
 
Last edited:
Purple said:
In no particular order:
  • The film showed Dev hiding behind a wall in Béal na Bláth
  • The portrayal of Dev as a pantomime villain
  • Dev is portrayed as a bit of a racist when he says in a speech that "only pure blood Irish" should be able to participate in the new Republic which never happened and wouldn't have happened since he wasn't pure blood Irish and he wasn't a racist
Click to expand...
To which I would add the casting of Severus Snape as Dev.

Purple said:
  • The deaths of Harry Boland and Ned Broy are completely made up
  • The car bomb in Dublin Castle never happened (there were no car bombs at all)
  • Dev surrendering in the GPO at the end of the 1916 Rising instead of Boland's Mills
  • The portrayal of Collins as anything other than an Armchair General
  • The portrayal of a political campaign right after 1916 even though the first Dáil hadn't met
  • Not showing Collins appointing himself as Commander and Chief and later strong-arming Arthur Griffith into ratifying that appointment in the Dáil
  • Griffith, not Collins was the head of the Treaty negotiations
Click to expand...
In fairness I don't think these are serious issues for the film. Anyone who wants that level of historical accuracy, should read a book.

Purple said:
  • The lack of a mention of Home Rule
  • The lack of any acknowledgement of the unpopularity of the 1916 Rising at the time
Click to expand...
These are very important historical issues and the film's lack of any reference is significant, however it is after all a circa 2 hour movie. Neither of these things could be dealt with in any meaningful way in that context, plus a movie about Michael Collins.

Purple said:
  • The portrayal of the use of an Armoured Car in Croke Park on Bloody Sunday
  • It was the Black and Tans and the RIC that fired into the crowd on Bloody Sunday, not regular British Army forces.
Click to expand...
This is true but perhaps misleading. There were armoured cars and regular soldiers in the operation, and I understand the army was in charge of the operation. It was RIC (interesting) and Tans who fired on the crowd.

Purple said:
But the worst part of the film was the attempt by Neil Jordan to create a historical and emotional connection between the Provisional IRA and Michael Collins which, of course, couldn't be further from the truth.
Click to expand...
This of course is the rub. I wouldn't agree with you that Jordan is trying to that, but I think that there is such a connection.

Or maybe Collins had a democratic mandate, and conducted military operations in the open, and never caused civilian casualties.
 
cremeegg said:
To which I would add the casting of Severus Snape as Dev.
Click to expand...
Rickman is a great actor who was playing the part that Jordan wanted him to play. Jordan wanted Dev to be a pantomime bad guy. It was very disrespectful and a gross distortion of history. Not, as I mentioned, the same level of distortion as Schlender's List, but up there with it.
cremeegg said:
In fairness I don't think these are serious issues for the film. Anyone who wants that level of historical accuracy, should read a book.
Click to expand...
Making Collins head of the delegation was a big issue.
cremeegg said:
These are very important historical issues and the film's lack of any reference is significant, however it is after all a circa 2 hour movie. Neither of these things could be dealt with in any meaningful way in that context, plus a movie about Michael Collins.
Click to expand...
It's a movie "inspired by actual events". It's about Michael Collins in the way that Rambo III was about the Russian war in Afghanistan.
cremeegg said:
This is true but perhaps misleading. There were armoured cars and regular soldiers in the operation, and I understand the army was in charge of the operation. It was RIC (interesting) and Tans who fired on the crowd.
Click to expand...
There were armoured cars but not in Croke Park. That's a biggie for me.
cremeegg said:
This of course is the rub. I wouldn't agree with you that Jordan is trying to that, but I think that there is such a connection.
Click to expand...
Collins fought a war against the people the Provisional IRA say that they are a continuation of. He was pro-Partition and used British guns to ensure that partition remained. That's not a criticism, it's a statement of fact. While Collins did indeed open the Pandora's box of what would now be regarded as terrorism (and was then by most people) he couldn't have been further from the PIRA in his aims or goals and, crucially, didn't engage in pointless unwinnable terrorist campaigns that targeted the incriminate killing of civilians. In fact the IRA in Britain in the 20's were destroying infrastructure and doing low level things like burning hey.
cremeegg said:
Or maybe Collins had a democratic mandate, and conducted military operations in the open, and never caused civilian casualties.
Click to expand...
Way too broad a stroke to use when trying to draw a line of connection.
 
The Irish R.M.

Not entirely joking.

Crucial to an understanding of Ireland today is that a lot of people who couldn't get along with living in a colonised\occupied nation emigrated or were killed.

Ireland of today owes a lot of its character to the fact that it is populated by the descendants of those who worked the (British) system from the inside and from the outside.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top