Eircom ESOP: when's our next windfall?

[neonitrix]

did anyone elso who is ex eircom receive a letter from the cwu yesterday regarding the esop vote?

i got a letter out of the blue yesterday and i havent been a member of eircom or the cwu in about 5 & 1/2 years.

i will post copy of letter tomorrow as i have left it at home


neonitrix

 

[ph3n0m]

did anyone elso who is ex eircom receive a letter from the cwu yesterday regarding the esop vote?

i got a letter out of the blue yesterday and i havent been a member of eircom or the cwu in about 5 & 1/2 years.

i will post copy of letter tomorrow as i have left it at home


neonitrix

what did it say - even a brief summary

 

[neonitrix]

what did it say - even a brief summary

the gist of it was how important it was to vote yes in the ballot and also that a small group of people were trying to run a no vote campaign.

i wonder who they were mabey some of us?

anyway i will try and scan the letter and upload in morning .

photo of letter dont have scanner handy

the last paragraph is especially interesting.
neonitrix

 

[neonitrix]

my letter to Steve Fitzpatrick General Secretary of the CWU regarding the attached letter:

Hi Steve,

I am just wondering what brought about the cwu making contact with myself regarding the esop circular which was issued in the past week, I have left eircom/vodafore over 5 years ago and haven’t received any correspondence from the cwu in that time until now.

I have however read the letter and if you are now indeed representing past members of the cwu I ask for the union to take a stronger stance against the stone walled view currently being experienced by members of the ESOP. Where it is near impossible to get any answers what so ever regarding possible share allocations or distributions.

I am in a situation where I still have a claim in the ESOP albeit only 4/10ths share but with having taken so many cuts this year to my private sector job and the same being said for my wife. I was fully expecting an allocation or news of an allocation before Christmas; now that this looks unlikely I am unsure where to turn. At the very least I expected an honest answer to some of my questions which I put to the ESOP.

As I am sure you are aware ESOP is being very creative with the information they are putting out there to their members or lack of information. And telling people they know nothing a day before a glossy brochure is sent to all members doesn’t bode well. I am sure these brochures aren’t printed overnight.
I don’t want to see eircom in jeopardy and fully support the need to keep the company going, but to have the possibility of the ESOP having to invest more into eircom down the line makes me uncomfortable.

I don’t want to see eircom fail but of late the company hasn’t been helping itself and the argument I have seen from some beneficiaries of the esot who are campaigning against the stt transaction is starting to get compelling, considering the lack of info available to esop members of late, and to hear finally from the cwu in the final days of a vote after no contact for so long only confuses me more.

Yours sincerely

Neonitrix

the gist of it was how important it was to vote yes in the ballot and also that a small group of people were trying to run a no vote campaign.

i wonder who they were mabey some of us?

anyway i will try and scan the letter and upload in morning .

photo of letter dont have scanner handy

the last paragraph is especially interesting.
neonitrix

 

[brasstax]

Steve Fitzpatrick and ESOP say STT are a Global player with a good track record. This might be so, I dont know, but it is not apparent as to the strategy and plans they have for growing the Eircom Business. He also says STT have good relationship with the Goverment and the Regulator. What does this mean. Give me some examples. We were conned in 2006 in accepting B na B. This time they are playing the desperation card. STT need to brief us on why we should vote Yes.

 

[Montreal]

PLease see below email I sent to Union just to see if I get a reply........



Hi Ian,
It seems this 'letter of propaganda' was sent out to ex-cwu members so, as paid up member, I wondered why it wasn't sent to me also.
It seems the Union has more access to information from ESOP than Esop members have yet I understood the Union and ESOP to be totally seperate entities....seems the 'old boy' network is alive and well in eircom.
I would like you to put me in touch with the Union solicitors as I have several legal questions pertaining to the ESOP board and how it is being run. There is no transparency in the way they do their, or should I say OUR, business.
I am in contact with a substantial group of ex eircom staff and we all have reservations on how the Board are behaving toward us.
I also would ask that somebody would bring up the fact that when one rings the ESOP office for information, our CWU colleagues on the phones are dismissive and rude when asked for details of ESOP business.
As you can guess we are very angry at the way we are being ignored.
I will expect the courtesy of a reply to this email and the questions raised within.

 

[paul o b]

montreal dont hold your breath waiting for a reply . in relation to the point you raised about esop and unions being seperate , i have stated this many times on this forum . they claim NOT to be involved in the internal affairs of each other , yet any information that comes out is through the union reps first . i have already objected to NONE esop members such as the cwu , credit union , etc etc being made aware of any situation regarding any proposed payouts or anything else before the membership . i have made those objections known by way of email to the esop board , the credit union , and the c w u , but because , as you so rightly put it the old boy network is alive and well , and in such circumstances i would be surprised if i got a meaningful reply

 

[neonitrix]

my letter to Steve Fitzpatrick General Secretary of the CWU regarding the attached letter:

Hi Steve,

I am just wondering what brought about the cwu making contact with myself regarding the esop circular which was issued in the past week, I have left eircom/vodafore over 5 years ago and haven’t received any correspondence from the cwu in that time until now.

I have however read the letter and if you are now indeed representing past members of the cwu I ask for the union to take a stronger stance against the stone walled view currently being experienced by members of the ESOP. Where it is near impossible to get any answers what so ever regarding possible share allocations or distributions.

I am in a situation where I still have a claim in the ESOP albeit only 4/10ths share but with having taken so many cuts this year to my private sector job and the same being said for my wife. I was fully expecting an allocation or news of an allocation before Christmas; now that this looks unlikely I am unsure where to turn. At the very least I expected an honest answer to some of my questions which I put to the ESOP.

As I am sure you are aware ESOP is being very creative with the information they are putting out there to their members or lack of information. And telling people they know nothing a day before a glossy brochure is sent to all members doesn’t bode well. I am sure these brochures aren’t printed overnight.
I don’t want to see eircom in jeopardy and fully support the need to keep the company going, but to have the possibility of the ESOP having to invest more into eircom down the line makes me uncomfortable.

I don’t want to see eircom fail but of late the company hasn’t been helping itself and the argument I have seen from some beneficiaries of the esot who are campaigning against the stt transaction is starting to get compelling, considering the lack of info available to esop members of late, and to hear finally from the cwu in the final days of a vote after no contact for so long only confuses me more.

Yours sincerely

Neonitrix

my reply received this morning:

Hi Neonitrix

The General Secretary is busy at meetings all day today and
passed your query onto me this morning. The reason the CWU decided to
contact, where possible, former members on this occasion was simply that
a number of queries to Head Office indicated that there was a demand
there for such a communication. Indeed I took a number of calls myself
from former members who on receipt of their ESOP Extra 21 were keen to
know the CWU position regarding the ballot. As the circular outlines
the CWU believes that this transaction represents the best option for
the long term stability of the business and the opportunity to address
the considerable challenges that stability will provide.

I note your comments re communication with the ESOP and the
future strategy there and am passing your note onto the ESOP office as
they are best positioned to respond on those issues

Le meas
Jim

 

[doughnut]

For god's sake esop,are ye giving us our money or not. Otherwise i will have to take out a loan. Bank says if it is payed back early,i will have to pay 56 weeks interest at 19.9%. It is so annoying to share holders that ye are not transparent about what effectively is ours.

 

[neonitrix]

cwu passed my email onto esot and here is the response i received today:

The CWU have asked the ESOT to respond to certain aspects of your query which you sent to them, and our response is set out below.
The ESOP board shares many of your concerns about the future of eircom, and like you wants to see it succeed. It is in all beneficiaries interests that it does so. I would therefore ask you to consider ESOP Extra 21 carefully, and to reflect on the long period of uncertainty that has existed in relation to eircom's ownership and the destabilising effect this has had on the company. Hopefully you will come to the same conclusion that the ESOP board has, that beneficiaries interests are best served by replacing ERC as the largest shareholder in eircom, with STT, a company with extensive experience and expertise in the telecoms industry, access to capital, a long term approach to investment, and a willingness to work with the ESOT in taking eircom forward. If eircom succeeds then all ESOT beneficiaries benefit as a result.
In relation to ESOP Extra 21, it is important to point out that it factually represents the proposed transaction and sets out the ESOT board's views in a fair and balanced way. It is also a fact that the ESOP could not issue ESOP Extra 21 until after ERC had issued its Scheme Booklet which incidentally posted finally on Friday 13th, November. The ESOP succeeded in posting ESOP Extra 21 immediately thereafter to beneficiaries. Unfortunately, it is in the nature of negotiations on such matters, that the ESOT is required to refrain from any comment or publication while negotiations are in progress. There are also other regulatory approvals, such as in this case, the approval of the Australian Securities and Exchange Commission, that must be obtained before documents can be made public. You can be assured however that ESOP Extra 21 was posted to beneficiaries at the absolute earliest opportunity possible given all the above constraints that were upon us.
Regards,
Liz Gaffney

 

[ph3n0m]

cwu passed my email onto esot and here is the response i received today:

The CWU have asked the ESOT to respond to certain aspects of your query which you sent to them, and our response is set out below.
The ESOP board shares many of your concerns about the future of eircom, and like you wants to see it succeed. It is in all beneficiaries interests that it does so. I would therefore ask you to consider ESOP Extra 21 carefully, and to reflect on the long period of uncertainty that has existed in relation to eircom's ownership and the destabilising effect this has had on the company. Hopefully you will come to the same conclusion that the ESOP board has, that beneficiaries interests are best served by replacing ERC as the largest shareholder in eircom, with STT, a company with extensive experience and expertise in the telecoms industry, access to capital, a long term approach to investment, and a willingness to work with the ESOT in taking eircom forward. If eircom succeeds then all ESOT beneficiaries benefit as a result.
In relation to ESOP Extra 21, it is important to point out that it factually represents the proposed transaction and sets out the ESOT board's views in a fair and balanced way. It is also a fact that the ESOP could not issue ESOP Extra 21 until after ERC had issued its Scheme Booklet which incidentally posted finally on Friday 13th, November. The ESOP succeeded in posting ESOP Extra 21 immediately thereafter to beneficiaries. Unfortunately, it is in the nature of negotiations on such matters, that the ESOT is required to refrain from any comment or publication while negotiations are in progress. There are also other regulatory approvals, such as in this case, the approval of the Australian Securities and Exchange Commission, that must be obtained before documents can be made public. You can be assured however that ESOP Extra 21 was posted to beneficiaries at the absolute earliest opportunity possible given all the above constraints that were upon us.
Regards,
Liz Gaffney

eh? call me blind - but she actually didnt reply to any of your original queries at all!

 

[neonitrix]

eh? call me blind - but she actually didnt reply to any of your original queries at all!

I understand that and am not surprised its Esop after all isnt it.

Neonitrix

 

[ph3n0m]

For god's sake esop,are ye giving us our money or not. Otherwise i will have to take out a loan. Bank says if it is payed back early,i will have to pay 56 weeks interest at 19.9%. It is so annoying to share holders that ye are not transparent about what effectively is ours.

Ditto - and thats if I can get myself a loan in time - think this christmas is going to be extremely lean, but atleast if we knew about money being paid out or not, it wouldnt have to be that messy

 

[ph3n0m]

You obviously can't see the bigger picture you little person.....

Well that's how I feel like I'm been treated ( in case anyone takes offence ) by them in this matter.

'Money that's only for the great unwashed.... We don't contemplate such mundane matters'

Should be the ESOP ( if it isn't already and we are being terribly naive ) Mission Statement

Or more crudely put

'Tell the cu nts nothing'.. Sorry for the profanity but that is how I feel they view us. An annoyance whose existence has to be acknowledged on sufferance every now and again.

very true, unfortunately

 

[irishpancake]

eh? call me blind - but she actually didnt reply to any of your original queries at all!

I'm sorry ph3n0m, ExEircom and neonitrix.

I simply cannot understand the basis of your vitriolic attacks on both CWU and ESOP.

neonitrix sent a letter/email to the GS of the CWU and received a curteous reply.

The letter/email was sent to the ESOP by the CWU, who also replied in detail to the supposed lack of information allegation.

From neonitrix original letter/email, as published here, it is hard to actually find any substantive queries other than the lack of information allegations.

As I am sure you are aware ESOP is being very creative with the information they are putting out there to their members or lack of information. And telling people they know nothing a day before a glossy brochure is sent to all members doesn’t bode well. I am sure these brochures aren’t printed overnight.
I don’t want to see eircom in jeopardy and fully support the need to keep the company going, but to have the possibility of the ESOP having to invest more into eircom down the line makes me uncomfortable.

I don’t want to see eircom fail but of late the company hasn’t been helping itself and the argument I have seen from some beneficiaries of the esot who are campaigning against the stt transaction is starting to get compelling, considering the lack of info available to esop members of late, and to hear finally from the cwu in the final days of a vote after no contact for so long only confuses me more.

Which queries were not answered by the ESOP or CWU replies?

Is there some further information in the original letter/email which has not been published here, or some other communication which preceded this letter/email?

It is hard to understand the cause of the anger which is obviously being felt by some ESOP participants, generally ex-eircom and ex-CWU.

While I am attempting to understand it, using abusive terminology is no substitute for cogent arguments.

Or more crudely put

'Tell the cu nts nothing'.. Sorry for the profanity but that is how I feel they view us. An annoyance whose existence has to be acknowledged on sufferance every now and again.

No point in being sorry after using profanity instead of argument, unless you intend to edit this out of your post, which I think you should do, out of respect for other users of AAM.

Perhaps you should look at the rules of the Board, particularly , and reconsider how you put your arguments forward.

 

[Burman]

Irishpancake, the cause of the anger is simple, LACK OF INFORMATION, from the ESOP. I am Ex Eircom (and Ex IMPACT). I do not want to see Eircom going down the tubes and this is not just that half my future pension will come from there. I respect that ESOP has a lot to deal with but even when it hadn't, members/ shareholders were kept in the dark. It's a simple question, Payment or No Payement before Christmas. I have emailed this question to ESOP from the web site and I have not received a reply. At this stage my only recourse would appear to be through a solicitor to find out exactly what are my rights ( or lack of them). It may be a path we will all have to travel.

 

[Evertondub]

Ex-Eircom, you say...

They are sitting at the moment on circa €250m of assets that are ours over and above the 35% stake in Eircom.

Can you say how this €250m is calculated and what it consists of? I am wondering as it seems to conflict with the valuation put on the ESOT by the CWU.

Thanks.

 

[penpusher]

We're sobbing quietly in our respective corners.....

 

[ph3n0m]

well keep sobbing - got a reply from ESOP this morning

my email to them was a direct question whether there would be a payment pre-christmas, their complete reply is below

The Trustee have made no announcement regarding the next distribution of shares, but it is the policy of the Trustee to keep distributions of shares under review at all time .
Regards

 

[luckylou]

well keep sobbing - got a reply from ESOP this morning

my email to them was a direct question whether there would be a payment pre-christmas, their complete reply is below

When will we know the outcome of the ballot?