Donegal Crash: Respect for the dead?

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Latrade

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As tragic as the circumstances were, I'm a bit shocked at the quite vitriolic response I've seen to several news shows over the last few days when all the presenter has done is asked some reasonable questions about the crash.

I understand people's personal grief, but I don't see anyone finger pointing, just asking some legitimate questions.

Like just how did it come that 8 people were travelling in a VW Passat? That's not blaming anyone for the accident, but is a question that came to me as soon as the details were annouced.

Second critical question is why is the road safety record of Donegal so bad? I love the county, but I really do dislike having to stay there with work. It's the only place where I never get a full night's sleep when in a hotel because of the boy racers up and down the streets and roads at night. Never have I heard or seen any Gardai response to these events.

People are genuinely stunned by the outcome and the circumstances (as we know it), I just resent being made to feel insensitive for having some concern about those circumstances.

Should we just keep our mouths shut and wait for the investigation? If so, why only in this case when every other suspected or demonstrated criminal activity is speculated over for months and years?
 
+1

When a significant proportion of the population in an area have a total lack of respect for road safety laws, why is anyone surprised when there are regular fatalities?
 
I agree. The story is one of the saddest things I have heard in a very long time but if any good at all is going to come out of it, we need to ask the questions now while the media attention is on. They seem to have no problem showing dramatic ads. Well here is a real life tragedy that should be used an example to others.

That doesn't mean not respecting the dead but the difficult questions need to be asked and answered.
 
Most of the angry responses to the media have been Donegal based, naturally. I'd say most are from an understandable uncomfort with the media seemingly blaming the driver (I don't think they are), but there some that are defending the driving to some extent, usually on the issue of City folk Vs Country. I accept that there is a difference, but that's not a justification. I doesn't mean I can't wonder what each of the 8 in the Passat were thinking getting into it in the first place.
 
Completely agree with you Latrade. I think people need to get angrier about things like this because it really isn't good enough. Obviously I have sympathy with the families but I especially feel for the poor man on his way home from bingo to have his life ended like that. 8 people in one car is a danger to anyone else on the road and really these questions do need to be asked if anything is going to change.
 
I completely agree.

On Newstalk this morning they were discussing the crash and the view was- "Well it's very sad particularly as the lads were doing the right thing by all going in the one car as they had drink taken"

Doing the right thing?
 
Latrade said:
I'd say most are from an understandable uncomfort with the media seemingly blaming the driver (I don't think they are), but there some that are defending the driving to some extent, usually on the issue of City folk Vs Country.
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I suppose we should wait until the full facts come out but it already looks like speed was the factor. To have 7 passengers in your car is crazy but to then drive at speed is showing a total disregard for the lives of your passengers and other road users.
There has already been several witnesses stating the car was driving very fast - one overtaken car even flashed them. The driver also had a previous conviction for dangerous driving.

An unbelievable waste of life.
 
Latrade said:
Like just how did it come that 8 people were travelling in a VW Passat? That's not blaming anyone for the accident, but is a question that came to me as soon as the details were annouced.
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That has been covered in the media reports I have read

Latrade said:
Second critical question is why is the road safety record of Donegal so bad? I love the county, but I really do dislike having to stay there with work. It's the only place where I never get a full night's sleep when in a hotel because of the boy racers up and down the streets and roads at night. Never have I heard or seen any Gardai response to these events.
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$64,000 question and, no single right answer. I've being holidaying in Inishowen off and on for over 40 years and the boy racer culture was in place in the 1960/70s. The street outside my granny's house was like a racetrack on weekend nights

Latrade said:
Should we just keep our mouths shut and wait for the investigation? If so, why only in this case when every other suspected or demonstrated criminal activity is speculated over for months and years?
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It's common practice in Ireland to give families space and time to grieve. I'm OK with that.
 
How close to the northern ireland border is inishowen?
could alot of the boy racers be from the northern ireland side and Gardai cannot prosecute them? i wonder is this part of the reason it is so bad in this area?

My heart goes out to all concerned but 8 people in one speeding car is a recipe for disaster
 
Ciaraella said:
How close to the northern ireland border is inishowen?
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Very close. From Dublin, the most direct route is to go through Northern Ireland and exit at Muff, beyond Derry.

It amuses ,when in Culdaff, to hear people from Northern Ireland refer to being in 'The South', even though Culdaff is further north than any point in 'The North' ;) !
 
From what I heard on the radio, it was a Northern Ireland reg car that they were in.

Whilst me heart goes out to those involved and their families, at the end of the day, 8 guys, in a NI reg car, speeding on a country road, at least 3 of whom cannot have been wearing seatbelts is a recipe for disaster.

As for Gardai enforcement, harsh reality is that in country areas, there physically arenn't enough Guards to be everywhere. Because there are so few, if you live in the country, you almost know where the checkpoints will be and they usually don't come out until after closing time to try and get drunk drivers.
 
Some silly comments on here, considering the grief there is up here.

The Gardai can prosecute an NI reg car for speeding or other road traffic incidents. Same as the PSNI can do to RoI cars in the North.

What does it matter than these guys were in an NI reg car? Whats that got to do with anything? There are hundreds if not thousands of NI reg cars being driven by Donegal residents - there is a huge push up here by the Customs to get VRT off people at present.

We all know that 8 young folk in a car isn't clever, but it probably happens more than we ever know. I did it myself when I was that age. You tend not to think about your own safety when you are young, out socialising and having a bit of craic. However, occasionally things go badly wrong and innocent people suffer, like in this case.

But it will not stop young people driving fast. Thats unreasonable to expect. Many always have, and always will.

Also I don't think Donegal has any faster or more careless drivers than the rest of the country. I have seen many bad cases of driving all over IReland, the UK and Europe. Harsh to pick out one place. But what I can say for sure is that its probably got the worst quality roads through lack of investment. Road conditions have been blamed for deaths in the past up here.

I think that maybe we should show some respect and at least let these young people be buried before we start coming on and slagging them off on the internet.:(
 
Ceist Beag said:
Completely agree with you Latrade. I think people need to get angrier about things like this because it really isn't good enough. Obviously I have sympathy with the families but I especially feel for the poor man on his way home from bingo to have his life ended like that. 8 people in one car is a danger to anyone else on the road and really these questions do need to be asked if anything is going to change.
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The Gardai should not hide behing niceties in these cases. The grieving families know the truth ........... speed. In the TV interviews the Guard should call it as it is.
 
I think that maybe we should show some respect and at least let these young people be buried before we start coming on and slagging them off on the internet
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On foot of this comment I just read back through all the posts in this thread. I fail to see any evidence of them being slagged off. Everyone is simply bemused as to what possessed 8 of them to get into a car designed for 5.
 
ancutza said:
on foot of this comment i just read back through all the posts in this thread. I fail to see any evidence of them being slagged off. Everyone is simply bemused as to what possessed 8 of them to get into a car designed for 5.
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+1
 
RMCF said:
I think that maybe we should show some respect and at least let these young people be buried before we start coming on and slagging them off on the internet.:(
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i agree, let the familes have some space, when the investigation is finished and the facts are out, we can then all wag our fingers and let the media have its field day! but for now best just let these people greve in peace.
 
starlite68 said:
i agree, let the familes have some space, when the investigation is finished and the facts are out, we can then all wag our fingers and let the media have its field day! but for now best just let these people greve in peace.
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I understand what you're saying and my heart goes out to the families of those who died. But the unfortunate fact is that the best opportunity to do something about changing attitudes to driving is in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy like this.
 
As usual, nothing will be explicitly said about the causes of this carnage, for fear of upsetting the families. Well I for one don't think they can be upset any more by telling their sons peers how they died, and why.
The driver had previous. He also had 7 others in the car with him and was speeding. To have sympathy for him is letting him off the hook IMO. "But he's got his own life sentence to look forward to" will be the refrain. Well that's more than his 7 friends. Yes, they were culpable in getting into a car that heavily overloaded, but ultimate responsibility lies with him and I hope he gets the book thrown at him and does serious prison time for it.
I live up in Donegal too. I heard the usual muppets tearing up the road near me on Monday night, flat out. Some time back, there was a crash in Dunfanaghy which killed 3 people (afair) and after the funerals (as in, within minutes), the muppets were tearing out and in the road into Dunfanaghy, past where their peers were killed !!!
It doesn't have to be a boy-racer car either, as this occasion shows, when it was a 'sensible car'. The mentality amongst the young people up here (speaking as someone not a whole pile older than them, at 34) is frightening.
I believe that everyone of their age should be shown the car wreckage of this and other crashes involving similarly aged people. Bravado would soon be eliminated if the realities of what can happen are shown up close.
 
RMCF said:
We all know that 8 young folk in a car isn't clever, but it probably happens more than we ever know. I did it myself when I was that age. You tend not to think about your own safety when you are young, out socialising and having a bit of craic. However, occasionally things go badly wrong and innocent people suffer, like in this case.
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It's not that it's not clever, it's illegal!! Road safety laws state that every passenger must wear their own seat belt. 5 belts in a saloon car means 5 passengers max.

Respect...yes I am sad that these people died...but the passengers in this car didn't have enough respect for their own lives to stay within the law and use the safety equipment provided...and that means that it's hard not to think that they were not totally innocent.

The death that upsets me most was the elderly man. Wrong place, wrong time.

May they all rest in peace
 
There was an interesting interview with a psycholigist from Trinity on Drivetime last evening. 2 things she said stuck in my mind

Firstly, in young men, the part of the brain the assesses risk/reward may not be fully developed by 18-20 years, it usually is after 23 when it is fully developed. Hence why young men are often far more likely to take risks like joining an army then those who are a bit older.

Secondly, peer behaviour is a big influence on young mens driving and an 18 year old with 3 people in his car of the same age is twice as likely to be killed in a crash then if he is one his own, whilst for a 40 year old with 3 people the same age in his car, the risk of him being killed is less then if he was driving on his own.

Perhaps one solution to the problem may be a graduated driving licence scheme so that, for example, if you pass your test and are under a particuler age, you have to adhere to reduced speed limits, or can't carry passengers etc

Of course, all academic unless the laws are enforced
 
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