Dirty work politics

L

lambdas

Registered User
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11
Hi,

I am a first-time poster. I work in a medium corporation, and I am a scapegoat for dirty politics. I have been working with the company for 5+ years and I have a great reputation and exceptional record with them. Recently our company is looking to reduce headcount by putting people on personal improvement plans. My manager is being bullied by upper management to select someone. My manager has done her best to try and not put me on it, but upper management won't listen and just want a name to add to their pip list. My manager has had to write an exasperated review of me which is not a true reflection of how hard I work.

The end result is that I have had to challenge the PIP with upper management. I have burned my manager by telling her boss that my manager told me I am not a low performer. This is now with upper management and HR.

How do people handle these dirty politics? I feel like I have lost a family member the stress is that bad. I now have lost a very good relationship with my manager. As I still work under her, even if the pip is not instigated I feel I will constantly be on an unofficial pip as I will always be watching my back and if I dont get it now, I will get it in a few weeks/months time. I dont believe I can be redeployed as other managers might see me as a nuisance as I did not just take the pip and shut up and move on. I feel now that the time with the company is limited, and I am just waiting on a tap on the shoulder to say your time is up !!

The most hurtful thing is having to tell the truth which in turn has got my boss into trouble who initially tried to protect me from it all.
 
I don't think you can win in a situation like this.

If management decide that you have to go, then you are going to go.

So you need to talk to a specialist employment law solicitor now and build up your case for constructive dismissal.

But start looking for a new job and get a new job first.

Brendan
 
lambdas said:
I dont want to walk as if I do, I loose my redundancy, which is significant.
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Well if you are on a PIP it is obviously a sign that they are trying to manage you out so the decision could be taken out of your hands. Better to leave on your own terms than be fired as you lose your redundancy that way anyway. Also, redundancy may likely not even ever happen if they are trying to reduce headcount via PIPs.
I'd get the advice of an employment solicitor on this imo
 
lambdas said:
I have burned my manager by telling her boss that my manager told me I am not a low performer. This is now with upper management and HR.
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I don't really understand what this means - maybe you can explain? Do you mean that you have gone over your manager's head to their superiors and contradicted what they (your manager) has offically put on record?
lambdas said:
How do people handle these dirty politics?
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I had to deal with an increasingly toxic work environment in my last job (after c. 17 years of glowing reviews and excellent performance) and, in the end, it left me burnt out and I simply decided to quit and take some time off. I have not returned to paid employment since and am de-facto retired for the moment at least. In my opinion you should get out before you start hitting burnout as I did and all the stress and complications that come with that. Ultimately companies don't care about individuals no matter how much lip service they may employ (and we had it in spades!) and unfair treatment is unfortunately common. It reminds me of The Sopranos - "you're only as good as your last envelope".
 
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lambdas said:
I dont want to walk as if I do, I loose my redundancy, which is significant.
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Are you in a union or staff association? If so get representation. If not get legal advice. Do not represent yourself. If need be take time out through sick (stress) leave. Under no circumstances have ‘talks’ without someone with you.
 
You say you have been there 5 years or so? Is the potential redundancy worth this stress
 
lambdas said:
I dont want to walk as if I do, I loose my redundancy, which is significant.
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Just start looking for something else.

I was there years ago with a toxic work environment and doing mental somersaults for a year about how to fix it. I realised couldn't fix it, so I left, and have zero regrets.

It depends a bit on what sector you work in but the labour market is red hot right now and switching jobs has never been easier.
 
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Just look for a job and leave. My husband changed company a few years ago. He quickly realised that the atmosphere in his new job was toxic. He wanted to stay to get the experience and do a minimum time as in itself the job was interesting and a good opportunity. He ended up always feeling under pressure and working all hours as well as being plainly bullied. The level of stress he experienced had an impact on him and the family as a whole. He finally left, it took him a while to find a good fit for him . The difference for him and the whole family was huge immediately. My only regret is that he stayed there 30 months.
As for the redundancy, with 5 years experience, are you sure it would be that significant? The saying that is easier to find a job with a job is true. And it's also easier when you have a job to get a pay increase. As a couple, we experienced redundancy 4 times. We were fairly determined to find a job quickly and it took us from one to three months to find a job. However when you are redundant, you do feel under pressure to take an opportunity that might not be the best for you. And 3 out of these 4 were short lived. My advice would be to look for a job, take your time to find something you are happy with. Then leave.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
I don't think you can win in a situation like this.

If management decide that you have to go, then you are going to go.

So you need to talk to a specialist employment law solicitor now and build up your case for constructive dismissal.

But start looking for a new job and get a new job first.

Brendan
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There is a difference between constructive and unfair dismissal. In the former, the burden of proof is on you to prove you had no choice but to resign and in the latter case the burden of proof is on the employer.

In addition, the remedy for a constructive dismissal is reinstatement or compensation for loss of earnings as a result of your dismissal (which of course are zero if you immediately take up new employment).

Constructive dismissal is not likely to be appropriate in this case as the PIP will likely lead to an unfair dismissal (if the OP has interpreted the situation correctly).
 
From what you have said the company is trying to use a PIP as a means of making people resign rather than selecting them for redundancy. So yes that is very unfair and you are better off leaving and getting a new job rather than suffering the trauma of them trying to push you out.

You should be able to add you own comments to your managers review saying you disagree with the findings and list specific examples of how hard you work and the precise count of achievements etc. This will make no difference to the company but will be important if you take them to the workplace relations commission.

If you quit, it can be considered constructive dismissal and you will need all the proof of that. If they fire you after a pip then it can be considered unfair dismisssl and the proof is on them.

If you think they are going to get you out either way you could start gathering your evidence now and take a case the day after you leave.

The main issue seems to be you do no want to leave redundancy money behind. So what you could do is work out how much that would be. Get an employment lawyer. Set up a meeting with HR and negotiate how much they will pay you to go away. Tell them you will take them to the WRC, for unfair or constructive dismissal otherwise, and cite some of the evidence you have. You will probably walk out of there with no job but a cheque. For you own stress levels do something next week, don’t put it off for a few months.
 
Sorry, I had a mistake in my years of service. It is 15+. My redundancy would be just under 200k. I will get in touch with a solicitor to start gathering my case. I am not involved in a trade union. The company does not recognise them. I have already argued my case in terms of the exasperated review. I am due a response to this early next week. My problem with walking is that I have no savings as I put all my extra money into upping my mortgage payments with the bank to double so that I can clear it in under 5 years. I have 3.5 years left.

I don't mind walking once I get my redundancy. With the redundancy, I can clear my mortgage and have a buffer to find another job.
 
ClubMan said:
I don't really understand what this means - maybe you can explain? Do you mean that you have gone over your manager's head to their superiors and contradicted what they (your manager) has offically put on record?

I had to deal with an increasingly toxic work environment in my last job (after c. 17 years of glowing reviews and excellent performance) and, in the end, it left me burnt out and I simply decided to quit and take some time off. I have not returned to paid employment since and am de-facto retired for the moment at least. In my opinion you should get out before you start hitting burnout as I did and all the stress and complications that come with that. Ultimately companies don't care about individuals no matter how much lip service they may employ (and we had it in spades!) and unfair treatment is unfortunately common. It reminds me of The Sopranos - "you're only as good as your last envelope".
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HI Clubman, Yes, I have gone above my manager to her manager to challenge the review, but I also have shown conversations via email where I challenge my manager for what she has to do, which showcases that conversations have taken place where my manager did not want to give it to me, but my manager did not respond to any of these e-mails. I also have recordings of my manager telling me she does not want to give it to me, but obviously, I cannot use that towards my claim as I did not get consent.
Brendan Burgess said:
OK, this is non-statutory redundancy.

So they are under no obligation to pay it.

Why don't they just pay this to you if they want you out?

Brendan
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I am not the only one impacted. It is more wider within the company. They are hoping that people will just leave and not complete the pip, in turn reducing headcount and not having to pay redundancy.
 
Is the redundancy figure based on a current redundancy program or a prior one, and if the latter how long since it closed ?
 
Ok so looks like you’re on the way to being managed out so it’s now the case that you manage it carefully.

Do the PIP, challenge every comment that you are underperforming, get as much support from lateral peers (email from x saying benign stuff like thanks for your help, quick reply… ) and act as if you think you will succeed in the PIP knowing full well you won’t. Every week you get paid you get paid …. Then when it comes toward the end of the pip it’s time to suggest that you would consider offers of severance but it would be more tax efficient if your role was to made redundant and leave it with them. Best case you get redundancy, next best - you get a lump sum to push off and if not you have had time to get your cv together to get out in the market.

I know some people have said PIP are not designed to manage people out but that’s the only way I have seen them work.
 
Yes, let's be honest a PIP is a way to get rid of people dressed up as a "supportive" measure to help the employee.
 
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